2552
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UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
EASTERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK
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- - - - - - - - - - - - - - X
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,
:
:
:
:
-against:
:
:
:
:
RALPH CIOFFI AND MATTHEW
:
TANNIN,
:
:
Defendants.
:
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - X
08-CR-415(FB)
United States Courthouse
Brooklyn, New York
Tuesday, November 3, 2009
10:00 a.m.
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TRANSCRIPT OF CRIMINAL CAUSE FOR JURY TRIAL
BEFORE THE HONORABLE FREDERIC BLOCK
UNITED STATES SENIOR DISTRICT JUDGE, and a Jury
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A P P E A R A N C E S:
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For the Government:
BENTON J. CAMPBELL, ESQ.
United States Attorney
Eastern District of New York
271 Cadman Plaza East
Brooklyn, New York 11201
BY: JAMES MCGOVERN, ESQ.
PATRICK SINCLAIR, ESQ.
ILENE JAROLAW, ESQ.
BRIAN SANO, ESQ.
Assistant United States Attorneys
For the Defendant:
WILLIAMS & CONNOLLY, LLP
Attorneys for the Defendant Ralph Cioffi
725 Twelfth Street, N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20005
BY: DANE BUTSWINKAS, ESQ.
MARGARET A. KEELEY, ESQ.
HACK WIEGMANN, ESQ.
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Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
2553
1
Appearances: (Continued.)
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BRUNE & RICHARD, LLP
Attorneys for the Plaintiffs Matthew Tannin
80 Broad Street
New York, New York 10004
BY: SUSAN E. BRUNE, ESQ.
NINA M. BEATTIE, ESQ.
MARYANN J. SUNG, ESQ.
LAURIE EDELSTEIN, ESQ.
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Also Present:
S.A. Dengler,
Federal Bureau of Investigation
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Court Reporter:
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
Telephone: (718) 613-2487
Facsimile: (718) 613-2694
E-mail: Anthony_Frisolone@nyed.uscourts.gov
P r o c e e d i n g s r e c o r d e d by c o m p u t e r i z e d s t e n o g r a p h y .
produced by Computer-aided Transcription.
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Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
Transcript
2554
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(In open court.)
2
(Defendants present in open court.)
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COURTROOM DEPUTY: All rise, the United States
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District Court for the Eastern District of New York is now in
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session, the Honorable Frederic Block is now presiding.
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(Honorable Frederic Block takes the bench.)
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COURTROOM DEPUTY:
Calling criminal cause for jury
8
trial in Docket No. 08-CR-415, United States of America
9
against Ralph Cioffi and Matthew Tannin.
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11
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Counsel, please note your appearances for the
record.
MR. MCGOVERN:
For the United States of America,
13
Assistant United States Attorneys James McGovern, Patrick
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Sinclair, Ilene Jaroslaw, and Brian Sano. Also at counsel
15
table is Special Agent Dengler
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Good morning, Your Honor.
MR. BUTSWINKAS
Dane Butswinkas and Margaret Keeley
for Mr. Cioffi.
Good morning, Your Honor.
MS. BRUNE: Susan Brune for Mr. Tannin.
Good morning, Your Honor.
THE COURT:
Good morning, everybody.
THE CLERK:
Criminal cause on trial, United
24
States versus Ralph Cioffi and Matthew Tannin.
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and counsel accounted for
All parties
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
2555
Hubbard-direct/Brune
1
2
THE COURT:
Is the jury here?
Anything we have to
talk about before we bring the jury in this morning?
3
MS. BRUNE:
I would like to hand up the report that
4
Dr. Hubbard provided in discovery.
5
will be any issue.
6
I don't know if there
THE COURT:
Is he going to be your next
8
MS. BRUNE:
Yes, your Honor
9
THE COURT:
Let's bring the jury in and have
7
10
witness?
Dr. Hubbard come in at the same time.
11
(Jury present.)
12
THE COURT:
13
We have our next witness who I asked to come here so
14
Good morning, everybody.
that we don't waste any time.
15
You will let me know if you really think you need
16
off at 4:00 o'clock for election purposes.
17
things go today.
We will see how
18
Let's formally call the next witness.
19
MS. BRUNE:
20
Defense called R. Glenn Hubbard to the
stand.
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22
R O B E R T
G L E N N
H U B B A R D,
23
having been first duly sworn, was examined
24
and testified as follows:
25
THE CLERK:
State your full name and spell it for
HENRY SHAPIRO
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2556
Hubbard-direct/Brune
1
the record
2
3
THE WITNESS:
Robert Glenn Hubbard, R O B E R T,
G L E N N, H U B B A R D
4
THE COURT:
Your witness.
5
MS. BRUNE:
Thank you.
6
DIRECT EXAMINATION
7
BY MS. BRUNE:
8
Q
What is your current employment?
9
A
I'm currently the dean of the graduate school for
10
business at Columbia University where I'm also a professor of
11
finance in the business school and professor in economics in
12
practical arts and sciences.
13
Q
What's your responsibility as dean?
14
A
As dean principally the management of the school and its
15
faculty.
16
and fund raising for the school as a private university.
17
Q
What subjects do you teach as a professor?
18
A
As professor I teach a variety of subjects.
Also the school's image in the business community
19
This term I'm teaching a class in private equity.
20
term I will do a class, the future of financial services in
21
the MBA program.
22
Next
Next term on the faculty of arts and sciences a Ph.D.
23
class in tax policy.
24
Q
25
background?
Would you please tell the jury your educational
HENRY SHAPIRO
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2557
Hubbard-direct/Brune
1
A
2
Science degrees in 1979, summa cum laude from the University
3
of Central Florida.
4
Sure. I received my Bachelor of Arts and Bachelor of
I was received my Masters of Arts and Ph.D. degrees in
5
economics from Harvard University.
6
Q
7
at Columbia University?
8
A
9
which is in Everstone, Illinois.
What other positions have you held, other than your work
I began my teaching career at North Western University,
I have also taught at the
10
Kennedy School of Government at that time at Harvard, Harvard
11
Business School, and at the University of Chicago Graduate
12
School of Business.
13
Outside of teaching I have been a research associate for
14
many years at the National Bureau of Economic Research in
15
Cambridge and I had two stints in government service from
16
1991 to 1993 with the deputy assistant secretary for tax
17
policy in the Treasury Department and from 2001 to 2003 was
18
chairman of the Counsel of Economic Advisors in the White
19
House.
20
Q
What is the chairman of economic advisors?
21
A
The Counsel of Economic Advisors are three economists
22
whose job is to advise the president on economic policy.
23
chairman is his principal advisor on the topics really
24
whatever the president wants advise on.
25
it had to do with finance obviously, which was a big topic,
HENRY SHAPIRO
The
In my particular day
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2558
Hubbard-direct/Brune
1
tax policy, debt, accounting and terrorist attacks and so
2
on
3
Q
4
Energy?
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A
6
Department on the affects of oil prices on the economy and
7
the affect on the oil market.
8
Q
Do you know whether that model is still in use?
9
A
In further iterations down the road, it's still in use
Have you provided work for the U.S. Department of
Yes.
Early in my career I built a model for the Energy
10
by the DOE.
11
Q
12
mean?
13
A
14
explanation of how something in the economy works, so take
15
key economic variables and assumptions and predict affects in
16
the case of the model you asked about, what would the affect
17
of changes in the economy and demand conditions in the oil
18
market on U.S. inflation or U.S. GEP and likewise what would
19
be the feedback affects on oil prices of changes and activity
20
in the American economy.
21
Q
Have you provided other work for the U.S. government?
22
A
Yes, I have.
23
Q
Would you give an example of a few of those for the
24
jury?
25
A
When you say a model, would you tell the jury what you
By a model, meaning all the model is really is an
Over the years I have done work for the International
HENRY SHAPIRO
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2559
Hubbard-direct/Brune
1
Trade Commission, Internal Receive Service and for the
2
Federal Reserve.
3
Q
What is the Federal Reserve?
4
A
The Federal Reserve is the nation's central bank.
5
capacity in which I worked with the Fed, both the Federal
6
Reserve Bank, and the Board of Governors have been matters
7
relating to monetary policy and to the regulations of the
8
financial system.
9
Q
What are your areas of professional interest and study?
10
A
My areas of research as an economist are centered
11
principally on financial economics, what economists call
12
public economics, analysis of government, tax and spending
13
policies, and the study of firms and industries.
14
Q
You have an area of interest in corporate finance?
15
A
Yes.
16
been the study of corporate finance, subjects I have written
17
on and taught on many occasions.
18
Q
What is corporate finance.
19
A
Corporate finance is an area of finance explaining how
20
corporations finance themselves, so topics related to
21
different debt policies, capital structure issues, links
22
between the financial decision and the actual operation of
23
the firm.
24
Q
25
publications with respect to hedge funds?
The
A subset of my work in financial economics has
Have you perform any academic work or written any
HENRY SHAPIRO
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2560
Hubbard-direct/Brune
1
A
Yes.
2
Q
Can you given the jury an example of you work in that
3
area?
4
A
5
Act vehicles of mutual fund vehicles, differences and
6
regulatory implications.
7
I have written on the comparison of hedge funds to 40
In the past few years I co-chaired the National
8
Commission on Capital Market Regulations, and a big area of
9
inquiry for us was the operation of hedge funds and of
10
disclosure in the market for derivatives.
11
Q
12
publications in the form of articles have you put out over
13
the years?
14
A
15
article, a little over a hundred.
16
Q
Have you written any books?
17
A
Several books.
18
which I'm pleased to say is popular, and I have a textbook in
19
money and financial markets.
20
health care and on tax policy.
21
Q
Have you previously testified in court as an expert?
22
A
Yes, I have.
23
Q
Have you ever not been accepted as an expert in court?
24
A
No, I have not.
25
You mentioned publications.
Approximately, how many
In terms of the my academic articles, peer review
MS. BRUNE:
I have a freshmen textbook in economics,
I have also written books on
I would like to tender Dr. Hubbard as expert
HENRY SHAPIRO
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2561
Hubbard-direct/Brune
1
in the field of economics and finance.
2
THE COURT:
Does the government wish to inquire?
3
MR. McGOVERN:
4
THE COURT:
We have no questions.
Continue.
5
BY MS. BRUNE:
6
Q
7
relating the case now on trial?
8
A
Yes, you did.
9
Q
Would you describe the analysis in broad categories and
Dr. Hubbard, did I ask you to perform some analysis
10
then we will go into more detail?
11
A
12
13
In the broadest category -THE COURT:
I will interrupt you.
Were you retained
to render any opinions in this case.
14
THE WITNESS:
15
THE COURT:
16
what were you supposed to do.
17
No, sir.
What was the nature of your retention,
THE WITNESS:
As I understand your question, I was
18
retained and paid for my time to answer some specific
19
questions not to provide a specific opinion.
20
THE COURT:
21
THE WITNESS:
22
THE COURT:
23
24
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what?
To explain certain things.
Yes.
Certain economic terms or concepts like
Like what for example?
THE WITNESS:
What are the strategies of these
funds, how does one assess the performance of the fund.
HENRY SHAPIRO
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2562
Hubbard-direct/Brune
1
THE COURT:
These funds, which funds are you talking
2
about generically hedge funds.
3
THE WITNESS:
4
The two funds at interest here, the
High Grade Fund and the Enhanced Leveraged Fund.
5
THE COURT:
6
THE WITNESS:
7
To explain what their strategy was?
How they performed and what their
prospects would be going forward.
8
THE COURT:
9
THE WITNESS:
You analyzed certain data given to you?
10
THE COURT:
11
THE WITNESS:
Yes.
Give the jurors a sense of that.
The data or the number of types, there
12
is a large data base called PORSHA that has all the
13
information on the transactions of the fund, every type of
14
security that is bought and sold.
15
has information on the collateral underlying the
16
collateralized debt obligations that the funds have, and a
17
series of net asset value files that the fund produced every
18
month as well as internal reports about working capital and
19
liquidity and stress tests that fund had done.
20
THE COURT:
Data set opinion for that
All of this materials were furnished to
21
you for the purpose of being able to answer what specific
22
question?
23
THE WITNESS:
The specific questions that I was
24
asked to answer, would it be reasonable from an economic
25
perspective if these funds were structured and managed to
HENRY SHAPIRO
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2563
Hubbard-direct/Brune
1
achieve ongoing profitable returns for investors.
2
THE COURT:
That's an opinion you're going to give
3
whether it would be reasonable based upon analyzing all of
4
that data?
5
THE WITNESS:
6
THE COURT:
7
THE WITNESS:
8
You were retained to give opinions?
Yes, sir.
By opinion you meant some
specific --
9
10
Yes.
THE COURT:
What conclusions, what opinions do you
have with respect to that particular question?
11
THE WITNESS:
My conclusion, your Honor, is that the
12
funds were structured and managed so that it would be
13
reasonable from an economic perspective, profitable to
14
operate them on an ongoing forward basis, as a month end
15
January, February, March and April of 2007.
16
17
THE COURT:
And then the second question you were
asked to opine upon or to explain?
18
THE WITNESS:
The second question would it be
19
reasonable as of those dates to also seek additional capital,
20
new investors to the funds.
21
22
THE COURT:
And did you come to an opinion in that
respect?
23
THE WITNESS:
Yes, your Honor.
24
I did answer, yes, it would be reasonable.
25
THE COURT:
And there was the last question that you
HENRY SHAPIRO
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2564
Hubbard-direct/Brune
1
2
were asked to opine about.
THE WITNESS:
Throws are the principal conclusions.
3
My report, that I prepared, all offered conclusions about
4
liquidity, plan management and process issues.
5
high level conclusions.
6
7
8
9
THE COURT:
Those are the
Is there anything else that you wish to
have this witness opine about?
MS. BRUNE:
As we go along there will be subsidiary
conclusions.
10
He has given the primary opinions.
11
THE COURT:
I would like to get his opinions out and
12
he could explain a little about the basis or the reasons why
13
he came to those conclusions.
14
government an opportunity to cross-examine, then you could
15
come back with redirect.
Then I would like to give the
16
MS. BRUNE:
Very well, your Honor.
17
THE COURT:
If you can explain to the jury a little
18
about the reasons you came to those conclusions and then
19
we'll give the government an opportunity to question you and
20
we will go back and forth.
21
THE WITNESS:
Certainly, your Honor.
22
If I take the first of the questions that the judge
23
asked me about, which is the conclusion of whether it's
24
economically reasonable to believe these funds were
25
structured and managed to continue to make profits going
HENRY SHAPIRO
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2565
Hubbard-direct/Brune
1
2
forward, one would need to do three things:
First of all, describe the strategy.
The strategy
3
here is a essentially a leveraged strategy with hedging.
4
What does that mean?
5
bank, the bank has to equity capital, it uses leverage, it
6
earns higher returns.
7
leverage came from repurchase agreements and the firms then
8
bought -- the fund then bought mortgaged instruments,
9
corporate bonds backed instrument and earned a return.
10
It's like a bank, in the case of a
In the case of these funds that
The second element of that strategy was hedging.
11
that you could if you take a position in markets or
12
mortgages, other asset backed securities, hedge those and
13
these funds did that.
14
So they pursued a strategy that was well
15
articulated, actually quite conventional in structured
16
finance products.
17
So
Then the second is if you're going to opine on
18
whether it's reasonable to operate these funds going forward,
19
you need a baseline, which means you need a model, so what I
20
did was look at the holdings of the funds, and then model
21
what sitting at any point in time one could reasonably expect
22
to happen in the future, house prices and the path of future
23
hedging contracts with the so-called ABX index contracts.
24
25
These were just things of the ways in which as to
hedge funds movement in-house prices.
HENRY SHAPIRO
With that in mind, I
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2566
Hubbard-direct/Brune
1
was able to model and assimilate at points in time, the end
2
of January, the end of February, the end of March, the end of
3
April, given the information the fund would have had at that
4
time, information not only in their own portfolio, but
5
information known in the market place, would you believe
6
sitting before the fact that this strategy could be profit
7
annual.
I did indeed find that.
8
If it's useful, your Honor, I could offer a
9
demonstrative of that. That indeed was what I found.
10
The second conclusion is whether given that, it's
11
reasonable to take in new investors.
12
course, take in new money, during the period of the early
13
part of 2007.
14
The fund did, of
I found based on my modeling analysis it was
15
reasonable to believe that that would be profitable.
16
two pieces of analysis were bolstered by two other things
17
that I looked at:
18
These
One, was what would have happened to the hedges that
19
the funds held. The fund, of course, at the end of the play
20
close. But the question is what would have happened to the
21
funds hedging strategy had it played out.
22
funds would have returned very large amounts of money to
23
investors, about seven hundred million dollars to the High
24
Grade Fund, six hundred and fifty million dollars to the
25
Enhanced Leveraged Fund.
HENRY SHAPIRO
I found that the
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2567
Hubbard-direct/Brune
1
The other element that is very important here is the
2
behavior of the lenders.
So when I make a statement that
3
it's reasonable to operate the fund, believe the fund could
4
operate profitably, that is a statement about the equity
5
holders, the fund is charged with maximizing interest of the
6
equity holders, the investors.
7
What about the debt holders?
During this period,
8
the end of April, that I was asked to analyze.
9
agreement lenders, the people who were providing the
Repurchase
10
leverage, that you heard about in the trial, made very few
11
changes in their contracts. They acted as if the arrangements
12
in which they had been engaged with the two funds was a
13
stable one.
14
So my own empirical work is bolstered by the view
15
both by the gains and the hedges and also by the activities
16
of the lenders, of course, who had real money on the table. I
17
could offer demonstrative examples but at a high level --
18
THE COURT:
Let me ask.
You are not talking to one
19
of the classes that form your business school now.
20
know whether I would qualify to be a student in that school.
21
We're dealing with regular folks, including the judge, who
22
are trying to get their hands on a lot of this language that
23
is somewhat unique, I guess, to your world and that's why
24
experts are helpful to explain to lay people, including the
25
judge, what a lot of these terms mean.
HENRY SHAPIRO
I don't
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2568
Hubbard-direct/Brune
1
I'm not going to ask you lots of questions in the
2
first instance.
3
purposes you did explain to the jury the basic basis for your
4
conclusion.
5
them.
6
I think it is sufficient for present
I don't know whether all of that is absorbed by
I don't know if it's absorbed by me.
I think it is sufficient for present purposes that
7
you gave the jurors a little sense of the basis for the
8
conclusions you made.
9
What we're going to do now, unless Ms. Brune has one
10
or two searching questions that she would like to ask now, we
11
will let the government question and Ms. Brune can come back
12
and ask more questions.
13
MS. BRUNE:
It would work fine as long as the judge
14
will allow the us latitude to ask a questions as to the work
15
that underlie these high level conclusions.
16
THE COURT:
We will do that.
17
The jury has a sense of Dr. Hubbard, for coming to
18
those opinions.
19
question and then you will come back. We will give you plenty
20
of latitude to get it all out.
21
I will let the government have a chance to
MS. BRUNE:
22
BY MS. BRUNE:
23
Q
24
your analysis?
25
A
Let me go through one subject.
Were you compensated for the time that you spent to do
Yes, I was.
HENRY SHAPIRO
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2569
Hubbard-cross/McGovern
1
Q
How did you get compensated?
2
A
I was paid for each hour that I spent on the proceeding
3
of $1,200 an hour.
4
Q
5
this matter?
6
A
Approximately, eighty.
7
Q
Were you assisted by others in performing the work?
8
A
Yes, I was.
9
under my direction on pieces of the report.
10
MS. BRUNE:
11
12
Approximately, how many hours have you spent so far on
The staff at the analysis group firm worked
Thank you, your Honor.
THE COURT:
Anybody wish to inquiry from the
government?
13
MR. McGOVERN:
I thought you said anyone other than
14
the government.
15
CROSS EXAMINATION
16
BY MR. McGOVERN:
17
Q
Good morning, Dr. Hubbard?
18
A
Good morning.
19
Q
My name is Jim McGovern.
20
attorney in the Eastern District of New York.
21
never chatted before, is that right?
22
A
Not to my knowledge, no.
23
Q
Dr. Hubbard, I might as well pickup where we left off as
24
far as your compensation goes.
25
I'm an assistant United States
You and I
You are getting $1,200 an hour for your time here; is
HENRY SHAPIRO
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2570
Hubbard-cross/McGovern
1
that right?
2
A
Yes.
3
Q
We're talking about eighty hours just for your time.
4
the neighborhood of $100,000?
5
A
Roughly, sure.
6
Q
And this analysis group, how many people at the analysis
7
group?
8
A
I'm sorry, I don't know.
9
Q
You work with them regularly, do you not?
10
A
Yes, but I have no idea how many employees they have.
11
I'm not an employee.
12
Q
13
analysis group?
14
A
Depends on the matter.
15
Q
Well, in this matter, for instance, how many folks did
16
you work with?
17
A
18
principally three.
19
Q
20
case, right?
21
A
22
be sure.
23
Q
24
25
In
It's a firm with many offices.
Do you work with a regular group of people from the
I would say the people that I meet with number
You put together about an
Yes.
eighty page report on this
I don't know the exact number of pages, lengthy to
Believe me I haven't counted them either.
And it was a very detailed report with footnotes and
cross references and a bibliography and all of that, right?
HENRY SHAPIRO
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2571
Hubbard-cross/McGovern
1
A
Yes, all of those are in the report.
2
Q
Who actually wrote the report?
3
A
I'm the principal author of the report.
4
Q
What does that mean?
5
A
I drafted the report.
6
Brune's questions on construction of exhibits, location of
7
documents, and things like that.
8
Q
9
entire report, is that right?
I received help as I answered Ms.
You sat down one day at your computer and wrote out this
10
A
11
all in a day, something like that process.
12
Q
13
of Columbia Business School, I would think that you would
14
have other things going on as you described during your
15
direct.
16
I wouldn't describe it as sitting down and writing it
I'm trying to understand, Dr. Hubbard, you are the dean
How much of your actual like hand was put into this
17
report, did you review it as the final and now your opinions
18
author or did you write the report?
19
A
20
draftsman of the report.
21
Q
22
I think, I answered your question.
I'm the principal
Fair enough.
You are actually getting a little more than $1,200 an
23
hour, is that right?
24
A
I guess, $1,200 an hour for my time.
25
Q
Do you get anything from the analysis group or a piece
HENRY SHAPIRO
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2572
Hubbard-cross/McGovern
1
of their bill?
2
A
3
attribution, which is based on their gross billings in the
4
matter.
5
Q
Do you accept that offer?
6
A
Yes, I do.
7
Q
Is that offer something in the line of ten percent of
8
their billings to you?
9
A
The analysis group offers experts something called an
No, in this particular case it's seven and a half
10
percent.
11
Q
In other cases it's as high as ten percent?
12
A
It would depend on the case.
13
Q
For instance, you testified in the case of in Re:
14
American Funds just recently in the Central District of
15
California?
16
A
I did indeed.
17
Q
In that case you received ten percent of the bill from
18
this analysis group?
19
A
I don't recall.
20
Q
But it was the same sort of arrangement where -- for
21
them you were billing eleven hundred dollars an hour, right?
22
A
Yes.
23
Q
But there was another component of your bill was this
24
analysis group offer as you call it, correct?
25
A
It sounds right to me.
That is correct, the attribution.
HENRY SHAPIRO
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2573
Hubbard-cross/McGovern
1
Q
2
up to in this case?
3
A
I really don't.
4
Q
Are you expecting a number $50,000 sounds right?
5
A
We have no idea, it's based on time that I supplied.
6
Q
You reviewed your report, correct?
7
A
Yes.
8
Q
And you reviewed all of the work that went into this
9
report.
10
And do you have an idea how much the attribution added
I haven't received them.
We're not talking about just reading a couple of
11
articles, we're talking about dissecting PORSHA data and
12
opinion for data, which are tables and data on top of data on
13
top of data.
14
Aren't we talking about potentially several hundreds
15
hours of work here?
16
A
I would be speculating to guess.
17
Q
Do you know what the analysis group bills are?
18
A
I really don't.
19
or her appropriate rate was.
20
Q
21
experience have you seen the billings in the past, have you
22
reviewed those bills in the past?
23
A
I have not.
24
Q
Okay.
25
Yes, lots of work.
Each person would bill at whatever his
Why don't you take a crack at it.
Based on your
There would be no reason for me to do so.
As you sit here you have no idea, besides the $100,000
HENRY SHAPIRO
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2574
Hubbard-cross/McGovern
1
you are getting for your testimony and previous work on this
2
case, whatever you might get from the analysis group, it
3
could be 50,000, another 100,000, maybe $200,000?
4
A
I have idea.
5
Q
Okay.
6
Your time that you spent here, the eighty hours of bill
7
time for this case involves not just preparing the report,
8
correct?
9
A
That is correct.
10
Q
In fact, you are getting a fee for just coming into
11
court today, is that right?
12
A
Yes, with the number of hours that I spend.
13
Q
Your meetings with counsel in the case?
14
A
The most recent meetings and the court appearance
15
wouldn't be in the eighty some small number of hours.
16
Q
17
Hopefully we will keep that within a reasonable range.
Did you have to travel for this case at all?
18
A
No.
19
Q
Have you met with Mr. Cioffi's lawyers in this case?
20
A
I have, yes.
21
Q
Have you participated in any of the mock trials that Mr.
22
Cioffi had in advance of this trial?
23
A
No, I have not.
24
Q
Have you been asked to provide a recitation of what your
25
testimony would be at this trial in advance of this trial?
HENRY SHAPIRO
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2575
Hubbard-cross/McGovern
1
A
No.
2
Q
Dr. Hubbard, during the course of your sort of
3
qualifications questions, you say that you actually opine to
4
a lot of matters outside of just hedge funds, is that right?
5
A
6
a number of topics besides hedge funds.
7
Q
And you have done some government work; is that right?
8
A
Yes, I was in the government twice.
9
Q
You worked in the first Bush administration in '91 to
I don't recall saying that.
I certainly did research on
10
'93?
11
A
Yes, sir.
12
Q
Did that in any way involve hedge funds or running a
13
hedge funds or anything like that?
14
A
15
time of derivatives in hedge funds was a live issue around
16
the tax part of the treasury.
17
I only did so in two respects, the tax treatment at the
I have also participated in the Treasuries working group
18
to financial reform you remember call at that time treasury
19
produced a large white paper on the reform of the financial
20
system.
21
Q
22
economic advisors for the next President Bush, is that right?
23
A
Yes.
24
Q
In that administration did you focus on hedge funds at
25
all or was that under part of your responsibility?
Again you were back in the government as a chairman of
HENRY SHAPIRO
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2576
Hubbard-cross/McGovern
1
A
2
financial regulations, also statistics on the working group
3
to financial markets.
4
Yes, in the sense of work on financial stability,
Probably recall this was a period of significant
5
financial turmoil during 2001.
6
Q
7
federal participation in terrorism risks, right?
8
A
Yes, I have.
9
Q
What was that about?
10
A
Well, you call after the 9/11 the insurance markets were
11
disrupted, and the federal government came in with what was
12
called terrorist risk insurance, taking the back end, so that
13
large commercial real estate properties and others could get
14
insurance.
You actually have written on the economic affects of
15
I participated in helping the president design his own
16
approach to that and that was the subject of the article to
17
which you referred.
18
Q
19
correct?
20
A
I wouldn't say it's directly related to hedge funds, no.
21
Q
Dr. Hubbard, so you understand where I'm coming from.
22
It's fair to say you have a wide -- very vast level of
23
experience here in topics outside of how to run a hedge
24
funds, correct?
25
A
Not necessarily germane to the hedge funds business,
I would like to think so, yes.
HENRY SHAPIRO
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2577
Hubbard-cross/McGovern
1
Q
You authored books on several topics other than what it
2
is we're talking about in this case, correct?
3
A
That is correct.
4
Q
And while you appear to know a fair amount about hedge
5
funds, you wouldn't say that is the only thing you
6
concentrated your work on?
7
A
8
worked on.
9
Q
I wouldn't say it's the only, but it's something that I
And you had done research in the 1940 Act -- done some
10
work on the 1940 Act?
11
A
Comparison of hedge funds and the 40 Act vehicles, yes.
12
Q
That is the Investment Advisors Act, right?
13
A
Yes.
14
Q
Now, you went through your findings and I wanted to take
15
a look at them if I could.
16
17
You have a report there in front of you?
A
I don't, sir, sorry.
18
THE COURT:
19
THE WITNESS:
20
You can have mine.
The judge was kind enough to hand me
his.
21
MR. McGOVERN:
Thank you, Judge Block.
22
Q
On page three of your report, Dr. Hubbard, you list for
23
us your findings?
24
A
Yes, sir.
25
Q
And you said during your direct examination that you
HENRY SHAPIRO
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2578
Hubbard-cross/McGovern
1
weren't called and paid to offer an opinion in this case,
2
correct?
3
A
4
told to adopt it.
5
Again, by that I meant I wasn't given a statement and
I was asked to investigate some topics and offer
6
opinions, which are on page three.
7
Q
8
provided to you, correct?
9
A
Your opinions are, of course, limited by the information
Well, the information provided to me plus my own
10
analysis, yes, comprise my basis of course.
11
Q
12
bunch of pieces of information and not give you all of the
13
information that could affect the accuracy of your opinion,
14
correct?
15
A
16
case here.
17
Q
18
For instance, hypothetically, if I were to give you a
It could, but I have no reason to believe that is the
Of course not.
But what I'm saying that is a potentiality of just the
19
recipient of information from one side of a piece of
20
litigation, isn't it?
21
A
22
information, I have asked for certain information and
23
collected a lot of information on my own.
24
Q
And provided to you?
25
A
Yes.
I don't consider myself the recipient of the
HENRY SHAPIRO
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2579
Hubbard-cross/McGovern
1
Q
2
wasn't provided to you?
3
A
4
in my records.
5
And you don't know if there was other information that
I'm sure there are things in the world that I don't have
I don't think any of them would change my conclusion.
6
Q
Did you review all of the e-mails sent between these
7
parties during this period of time?
8
A
I reviewed remember a number of correspondence.
9
Q
Did you see e-mails where they were discussing closing
10
the fund in early March of 2007?
11
A
Yes.
12
Q
Did you see e-mail that discussed the possibilities --
13
withdrawn.
14
Did you see e-mail that discussed the closing of the
15
funds in April of 2007?
16
A
I did see that, yes.
17
Q
And did you see the e-mail where Mr. Tannin said he
18
thought the market was toast?
19
A
I did see that e-mail, yes.
20
Q
But any way, getting back to what your conclusions are,
21
these are conclusions that are in answer to specific
22
questions, is that correct, Dr. Hubbard?
23
A
Yes.
24
Q
The first of your conclusions is that the strategies of
25
the funds were clear and communicated to investors and the
HENRY SHAPIRO
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2580
Hubbard-cross/McGovern
1
funds were managed in a way consistent with those strategies?
2
A
Yes, sir.
3
Q
That was a question that was -- you were answering with
4
that opinion, correct?
5
A
Correct.
6
Q
And was that a question that was posed by Ms. Brune or
7
Mr. Butswinkas?
8
A
Yes, I was asked -- counsel asked me to opine on that.
9
Q
Opine whether or not the strategy of the fund was
10
communicated?
11
A
Yes.
12
Q
And for that you would have reviewed the PPM?
13
A
Correct.
14
Q
And then your next opinion is that in the first part of
15
2007, that there was expectations the funds would generate a
16
positive return?
17
A
Yes.
18
Q
Isn't it fair to say there is expectation that they
19
could generate a positive return?
20
A
21
information that is available at the end of each of the first
22
four months, it would be reasonable to assume that there is a
23
positive return.
24
25
What I mean by that, an economist is using the
That is the likely outcome.
Q
That is something that you refer to throughout your
HENRY SHAPIRO
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2581
Hubbard-cross/McGovern
1
writings here during the course of this report, using Latin
2
you are ex ante, your ex ante sort of views of things?
3
A
4
Yes, you don't need the Latin.
Only information that you have at the time that you make
5
a decision was really relevant to ascertaining whether you
6
made a decision.
7
Q
8
the time what do you think looking forward, what would be a
9
reasonable view of this?
10
A
11
Your analysis is forward looking, right, it's like at
Correct.
That is the decision the managers had to make.
12
Q
There was a reasonable expectations, according to you,
13
that the funds would generate positive returns, correct?
14
A
The month end of each of those months.
15
Q
You would agree that they didn't?
16
A
I would agree with that, yes.
17
Q
And that your next opinion is that the change in market
18
conditions impacted the value of the funds, did not provide a
19
basis to shutdown the funds in your view, correct?
20
A
That is correct.
21
Q
And your next one is that the working capital was below
22
guideline levels, is that right?
23
A
That's not what it says, sir.
24
Q
Working capital cushion below a guideline level does not
25
assure the suggest the funds would be forced to liquidate
HENRY SHAPIRO
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2582
Hubbard-cross/McGovern
1
their assets?
2
A
Yes.
3
Q
And you answered that question as it was posed by
4
defense counsel as well?
5
A
Yes, sir.
6
Q
And the decision to continue to operate the funds and
7
raise capital as the end of each of these funds was
8
consistent with the reasonable expectations that the fund
9
would generate positive returns, correct?
10
A
And incur further losses if liquidated during this time.
11
Q
And incur further losses?
12
A
Yes.
13
Q
I don't want the questions as long as your sentence.
14
That was another question that you were asked by the
15
defense, right?
16
A
Yes, sir.
17
Q
Basically, if we were to put these together, your view
18
or your entire opinion is that their reasonable expectation
19
that this Enhanced Fund and High Grade Fund could have
20
survived through the spring of 2007?
21
A
That is indeed the opinion, yes.
22
Q
I took five paragraphs, six paragraphs and broke it
23
down, right. That is a fair statement?
24
A
25
down I will let you describe, yes, is that a reasonable
My opinion is a fair statement.
HENRY SHAPIRO
How you broke things
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2583
Hubbard-cross/McGovern
1
characterization.
2
Q
That this might have worked?
3
A
I'm saying it much stronger than that.
4
Again, each of those month ends it would be reasonable
5
to assume it would work.
6
Q
7
worked at the end of each month?
8
A
There were positive returns in January or February.
9
Q
I'm actually keeping in mind the question that I asked
There was a reasonable expectation that this might have
10
you, there was a reasonable expectation this might have
11
worked during the spring of 2007, that is your opinion?
12
A
13
the decision.
14
Q
15
out, right?
16
A
17
closed for a variety of reasons.
18
19
It was the right decision to continue operating.
And, of course, it didn't work as we ultimately find
I do not know what you mean, didn't work. The fund
If you would like to talk about--.
Q
20
Yes, we will.
At the end of the day we know that it didn't work,
21
correct?
22
A
23
day the funds closed.
24
Q
25
That's
I'm not sure I know what you mean.
At the end of the
At the end -- let me -THE COURT:
I think you are mincing words.
HENRY SHAPIRO
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2584
Hubbard-cross/McGovern
1
There was a reason why all of these predictions or
2
these reasonable expectations did not materialize.
3
know that.
4
5
THE WITNESS:
We all
I would happy to say what I think
about it.
6
THE COURT:
We're all curious to find out what was
7
the fly in the ointment.
8
analysis, something aberrational happened. We all know that
9
the economy wasn't in the best of shape.
10
It happened at
about that time.
11
12
Something did not enter into the
Why don't you tell the lay jury as professor of
economics what happened.
13
THE WITNESS:
I would break it up into two periods.
14
If you look at the first few months of 2007, what the funds
15
were doing, they were doing two things:
16
They had a leveraged carry strategy, to investor
17
money, borrowing money and buying assets, mortgages bonds,
18
whatever.
19
can lose money if the risk on those assets, the spreads that
20
you heard about in the proceedings go up.
21
They are earning a return on those assets.
They
To counter that they were also doing some hedging,
22
they were buying contracts on individual mortgages securities
23
and on classes of mortgage securities.
24
25
The hedges over time worked very well, because the
market in these derivative contracts, the ABX contracts were
HENRY SHAPIRO
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2585
Hubbard-cross/McGovern
1
very good hedges.
2
In March and April the hedging strategy that they
3
did didn't perform like one would have expected. Going
4
forward what closed the funds if you will --
5
THE COURT:
There was a reason why they did not
6
perform as expected. Maybe you can explain that to the
7
jurors.
8
THE WITNESS:
What we know historically is that the
9
ABX index of moved in the same direction of houses prices.
10
If you expect house prices to fall you expect a decline in
11
the ABX contracts, you can stay for that.
12
Remember the ABX contracts run different tranches,
13
all the way down to the less safe and you would expect the
14
movement in the less safe to be even more magnified when you
15
have that change in house prices.
16
That what I find, it's well known to market
17
participants, and during March and April that correlation
18
went the other way.
19
In affect, with the lens of hindsight we know for a
20
lot of market factors, people covering very large short
21
sales, not something known at the time, but what actually
22
caused the funds to close was the collapse of the leveraged
23
arrangements, the repurchase agreement folks saying no we
24
will not continue lending.
25
Q
Which was always a risk, right?
HENRY SHAPIRO
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2586
Hubbard-cross/McGovern
1
2
A
Always a risk.
Remember what the managers are trying to do is maximize
3
the interest of the equity holders, the investors.
4
reasonable for them to want to continue.
5
6
7
Perfectly
If you are a repo lender you don't get the upside if the
fund does well, you simply get paid back.
Lenders are far more risk adverse.
At the end of June,
8
the purchase agreement lenders said, no, we don't want to
9
play anymore.
10
What that means the funds has to then sell
assets.
11
I'm sure you have heard what the markets was like at the
12
time, the prices were distressed as you sell those assets you
13
have enough to pay back the repo lenders, but nothing for the
14
equity holders.
15
THE COURT:
Wasn't there a way of anticipating this?
16
We're looking at hindsight.
17
they're making these analysis.
18
to expect things don't go up all the time.
19
concept to embrace and put into the equation.
20
21
22
THE WITNESS:
We have these brilliant people,
Wasn't there a reasonable way
It's a difficult
Thinks look better with the lens of
hindsight.
Using the data that you had at the time you could
23
reasonably believe that the strategy would be profitable even
24
if house prices fall.
25
In my report I predicted that house prices would
HENRY SHAPIRO
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2587
Hubbard-cross/McGovern
1
fall.
2
actually did. It's the hedges that were making the money.
3
I predicted that they would fall faster than they
It was not because they were bullish on the housing
4
market when they shouldn't have been.
5
was bearish on housing.
6
They, like my work,
What they made the mistake the co-movement between
7
house prices and the derivative prices would remain the same.
8
They were not alone --
9
10
11
12
THE COURT:
Stop for a moment.
When you say derivative contracts, explain again to
the jury what a derivative contract is?
THE WITNESS:
The many steps here, It's a Wonderful
13
Life, the housing market in the 1930s, mortgages held by a
14
bank, it's not what we're taking about here.
15
The mortgages are put into pools and called
16
residential mortgage backed securities end in tranches, get
17
put into other arrangements called collateralized debt
18
obligation.
19
When funds like these two Bear Sterns funds made
20
investments in these vehicles, they attempted to hedge and
21
one way to hedge might be to buy what are called credit
22
default swaps, the probability that some individual
23
securities is going to default.
24
Another would be to buy contracts on index of
25
mortgages of a particular vintage and particular risk.
HENRY SHAPIRO
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
The
2588
Hubbard-cross/McGovern
1
2
ABX contracts.
The funds did both. They bought credit default swaps
3
on single names, bought these ABX indexes, they believed and
4
my model also believed that house prices would fall.
5
wasn't the issue.
6
The issue was whether these contracts would move the
7
way they traditionally had with house prices.
8
happened in March and April.
9
That
That was what
At the end of the day, what happens the repo lenders
10
decide they don't want to play anymore and in a leverage
11
transaction one had a leverage of ten times the other 27 and
12
a half times.
13
anymore, your done.
14
THE COURT:
If the lender doesn't want to lend to you
Just to give the jury, as a result of
15
everything that happened are there lessons to learn from this
16
happening in the future when prices for houses go up and the
17
sophisticated financing takes place again?
18
THE WITNESS:
Personally, I think there are a lot of
19
lessons to be learned.
20
Commission the report, if you wanted I'll give you the web
21
site, I could give you commercial answer for it, but the
22
simple answer to your question, yes, and some of the reforms
23
that many have commented on and myself, have called upon
24
increasing capital requirements and always making sure that
25
credit rating agencies do an even better job than they have
HENRY SHAPIRO
As co-chair of the National
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2589
Hubbard-cross/McGovern
1
done in the past.
2
3
Getting more information out there. This is from the
lens of hindsight.
4
THE COURT:
I'm not here to conduct a course. You
5
teach all of this at the Columbia business school. If the
6
jurors want to sign up as students they can be educated.
7
THE WITNESS:
8
THE COURT:
9
10
I'm doing it next term.
I know I am going far afield. We're
trying to get an understanding of what happened in the real
world.
11
To what extent it's relevant to the issues in this
12
case, I will not comment.
13
I will let the lawyers deal with all of that.
14
Itself not my role to do that and
For present purposes, I think, the jury probably
15
appreciates getting a little more depth and understanding of
16
what happened in the economic and stressful times.
17
Continue with your questions.
18
MR. McGOVERN:
19
BY MR. McGOVERN:
20
Q
21
relevance.
22
Thank you, your Honor.
In line with your most resent comments they're about
Dr. Hubbard, we've spoken or I have tried to distill
23
your opinion and by all means if I am over distilling it, let
24
me know.
25
Your thesis here appears to be that there was reasonable
HENRY SHAPIRO
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2590
Hubbard-cross/McGovern
1
expectations that these funds might have actually made it
2
through the spring of 2007?
3
A
4
those month end periods, yes.
5
Q
6
wanting to play anymore, excuse me if I get similarly
7
pedestrian with comments, it might have worked, okay.
8
Doctor, one of the things that you actually were
9
Conditional on the information available for each of
As you slip in the colloquial with the repo lenders not
provided in this case was the indictment--?
10
A
Yes, sir.
11
Q
-- is that correct?
12
And you saw in the indictment there is actually no
13
mention of a charge that says that these defendants are on
14
trial for having a bad strategy, correct?
15
A
That's my understanding, yes.
16
Q
There is no charge against them that they didn't -- that
17
there wasn't a reasonable expectations that this whole plan
18
to run this fund through the spring of 2007 might have
19
worked, right?
20
A
That's my understanding, yes, and I am a non-attorney.
21
Q
What you read from the indictment they are on trial
22
because they misled their investors.
23
Do you understand that?
24
MS. BRUNE:
25
I think that is not --
THE COURT:
Sustained as far as that is concerned.
HENRY SHAPIRO
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2591
Hubbard-cross/McGovern
1
Ask him a specific question rather than characterize
2
what the indictment is.
3
Q
4
these defendants disclosed to their investors the amount of
5
redemptions in their funds, correct?
6
A
7
investors --
8
Q
9
Your testimony here doesn't address in any way whether
Sir, you just asked me a question about misleading
That was stricken.
We very to stick with this one?
10
A
Your question now?
11
Q
Your understanding is this case doesn't in any way touch
12
upon whether or not the defendant's appropriately disclosed
13
to the investors that the amount of redemptions that were
14
pending in their fund?
15
A
I wouldn't agree with that, no.
16
Q
You also have opinions whether they disclosed to their
17
investors the amount of redemptions that were pending in the
18
funds during that particular time, the May 2007 time frame?
19
A
20
Would I have an opinion on the economics of what would have
21
mattered, what the investors would have known.
22
Q
23
the standard for disclosing that information, correct?
24
A
25
stand.
It's not the question precisely that you asked me.
You are offering an opinion whether they actually met
I'm not an attorney, it's not for me to opine on the
HENRY SHAPIRO
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2592
Hubbard-cross/McGovern
1
Q
2
and Judge Block were talking about.
3
That would be covered pages 39 and 40 of your report.
4
Now, I want to talk to you a little more about what you
In your report you point to two reasons why the funds
5
failed; is that right?
6
A
7
reason they failed.
8
Q
9
redemption requests, correct?
I mention two factors, one of which is the ultimate
A
11
causal factor.
12
Q
13
Yes, there are two factors.
There are two factors. The first of which, the investors
10
14
Why the funds failed.
Yes, and I go onto explain why that couldn't be the
Okay.
When you wrote the report, as opposed to what you are
saying today, you made A, B--
15
A you noted as being investor redemption requests,
16
correct?
17
A
18
a causal factor.
19
Q
20
redemption requests became a big problem before the repo
21
parties became a big problem, is that why?
22
A
23
the redemption requests occur before the repo lines were
24
pulled, that is factually correct.
25
Q
Yes, but I also note in the report why that couldn't be
Maybe it was because chronologically the investors'
I don't know what you mean by "problem".
Did some of
Would you agree the first -- not the first -- a big
HENRY SHAPIRO
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2593
Hubbard-cross/McGovern
1
problem occurred on June 7, 2007 when the funds has to
2
announce to all their investors nobody could get their money
3
back.
4
Do you remember that date or did you review anything
5
about that?
6
A
7
you are looking at, but, yes, that is a suspension which is
8
why this cannot be causally connected.
9
Yes, as you know from the report, it's on the page that
You can deal with redemptions by means of suspension.
10
It's the debt holders that could force the end of the exit.
11
Q
12
I think, I understand.
Are you saying that this suspension of redemption
13
by the fund where they told all of the investors nobody
14
is getting their money, did that have an affect on the repo
15
parties decision, say that we don't want to play anymore
16
A
17
clarifying if you like.
18
That is not what a suspension means.
Maybe it's worth
That is an incorrect statement of what a suspension is,
19
generally, in this case and specifically.
20
Q
I didn't go to the Columbia business school?
21
A
You don't need to.
22
Q
Suspension of redemption --
23
24
25
THE COURT:
It's plain English.
He could not get into the business
school, he had to go to law school.
THE WITNESS:
HENRY SHAPIRO
Your comment, your Honor.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2594
Hubbard-cross/McGovern
1
Q
2
being nobody can get their money out, correct?
3
When you suspend redemption, it means that for the time
None of the investors can gets their money out?
4
A
5
banks had been organized, yes.
6
Q
7
investors as far as the future goes, correct?
8
A
9
It's an old problem in finance.
It's the way commercial
And when there is a suspension, it doesn't look good to
It's not necessarily the case.
What a suspension means, it's the judgement of
10
management to meet the redemption requests, given market
11
prices would lead to either a significant markdown or
12
collapse of the fund.
13
You could suspend and have the equity holder be okay
14
post a period of suspension. What you can't live through is
15
the debt holders say, no, we will not lend anymore.
16
Q
Suspension is a good thing?
17
A
I don't think you could infer that from what I said. You
18
mischaracterized what a suspension is.
19
Q
20
suspension is it a good thing or a bad thing?
21
A
22
there are too many redemption requests for whatever reason,
23
that could be met at current market prices.
24
25
I'm trying to figure out what you are saying.
A
All a suspension means, in the judgement of the manager
If you had all liquid assets, it wouldn't be a problem,
just go and sell them.
HENRY SHAPIRO
If you don't have liquid assets it
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2595
Hubbard-cross/McGovern
1
could indeed be a problem.
2
Q
3
on Wall Street actually view a suspension as a bad thing, how
4
the appearance of your fund looks to others in the market
5
place?
6
A
7
your investors, no.
8
Q
You never worked on Wall Street, have you?
9
A
No, I'm a director of a company, but I'm not employed.
10
Q
You never had the job that of Mr. Cioffi or Mr. Tannin
11
had, correct?
12
A
I have not.
13
Q
And you never actually conducted trades or fought with
14
opposition on prices, correct?
15
A
I have not.
16
Q
And you understand in Wall Street, unfortunately it's
17
very opportunistic?
18
A
I'm not sure what you mean by that.
19
Q
If you suspend redemption and tell the market place that
20
you're in trouble by announcing that you are suspending
21
redemption, when you try to sell your assets off, you might
22
not get the best prices.
23
A
Let's unpack all the reasons that I don't agree--.
24
Q
I don't know if you have to unpack--?
25
Would you agree that on Wall Street the people who work
You clearly would not want to be suspending or debating
THE COURT:
Do you agree with that?
He says that he doesn't agree.
HENRY SHAPIRO
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2596
Hubbard-cross/McGovern
1
2
MR. McGOVERN:
The answers is yes or no. I don't
know if he's having a problem answering the question--.
3
THE COURT:
Just ask the questions and there will be
4
redirect and we will get it all out.
5
Q
6
of redemption in this case was part of the problem that
7
ultimately caused these funds to fail?
If you don't agree that the suspension -- the suspension
8
9
THE COURT:
A
Go ahead.
You can answer that yes or no.
If I could answer it in a sentence.
10
THE COURT:
Part of the problem--.
11
THE WITNESS:
12
caused both of these.
13
Q
14
the end of the day, is that repo counterpart parties, the
15
people infused like 19 billion dollars into these funds said,
16
you're not a good risk any more, I want my money back, right?
17
A
18
it would meet the risk tolerance.
19
Q
It's a symptom of a third thing that
Just so we can cut to the chase, what happens here at
The Repo lenders did not continue lending, did not feel
Let's unpack that a little bit--?
20
THE COURT:
He's trying to find out if there is a
21
correlation between that decision and the redemptions in this
22
matter.
23
24
25
THE WITNESS:
Only insofar as they are both
correlated with the underlying problem.
THE COURT:
We're trying to simplify it as best we
HENRY SHAPIRO
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2597
Hubbard-cross/McGovern
1
can.
It may be different.
There may be nuances.
But if you
2
could help the jury understand this I would appreciate it.
3
I think the question to begin with, whether there
4
was a correlation or connection between the redemption on the
5
one hand, such as they were, and the decision by the repo
6
lenders.
7
THE WITNESS:
8
THE COURT:
9
There is certainly.
Give us a sense of that.
Speak for a
few minutes and let's move on.
10
THE WITNESS:
They are certainly correlated and come
11
from the same underlying factor, the views of what was going
12
on in the housing market, the market in housing finance on
13
top of it, had shifted.
14
Q
Shifted dramatically?
15
A
Well, had shifted.
16
If you look at the prices during the time, the ABX
17
contracts were rallying.
They were going the other way.
If
18
you look at the data that I looked at on house prices it
19
would have been reasonable to presume that the houses would
20
fall through 2007, even what you knew in 2007.
21
Q
22
during that period of time, correct?
23
A
24
what.
25
That is an easy question to answer.
You would agree that others had a different opinion
I'm not sure what you mean "different opinion" about
People always have different opinions from everything.
HENRY SHAPIRO
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
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Hubbard-cross/McGovern
1
Q
Did we get to the point we agree the reason that the
2
funds failed was because the repo lenders took back their
3
securities?
4
A
I stated and you restated it.
5
THE COURT:
Let's move on.
6
Q
What we're talking about is repurchasing agreements,
7
correct?
8
A
Correct.
9
Q
A repurchasing agreement is a way in which hedge
10
funds managers like Mr. Cioffi and Mr. Tannin would borrow
11
more money or infuse leveraged into their funds, is that
12
right
13
A
It's a secured lending transaction.
14
Q
It's like pouring money-- putting up some collateral--
15
under a repurchase agreement the bank lending you the money
16
on the securities, correct?
17
A
Correct.
18
Q
When those banks-- those several banks took back their
19
securities in June or July of 2007, when they did that, they
20
took back assets that they owned already?
21
A
22
lending arrangement.
23
is
24
Q
They took their assets, correct?
25
A
We're no longer willing to do this.
What they are saying, I will not continue the secured
That is what a repurchase agreement
HENRY SHAPIRO
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2599
Hubbard-cross/McGovern
1
Q
That's when the entire building of these fund of twenty
2
million dollars plus just collapsed, right?
3
A
4
repurchase lending you have to sell assets at distressed
5
prices and equity holders are last in line.
6
Q
7
there is no market for these assets?
8
A
To understand why that is, when you withdraw the
These assets are what we end up calling toxic assets,
I'm not suture that I would accept that.
9
THE COURT:
We're getting far afield.
Ask another
10
question.
11
Q
12
the funds collapsing, and one of them is the investor
13
redemption requests and the other one as the repo lenders
14
taking back their assets, correct?
15
A
Yes.
16
Q
Let me just ask you some general questions about hedge
17
funds.
18
In your report you say that there are two reasons for
You know a lot about hedge funds and how they work,
19
correct?
20
A
Yes, sir.
21
Q
Would you agree that you need investors to have a hedge
22
fund?
23
A
You need some equity in the hedge fund, yes.
24
Q
If you don't have investors taking money from third
25
parties, you are not really a hedge fund, correct?
HENRY SHAPIRO
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2600
Hubbard-cross/McGovern
1
A
If I understand your question, you have to have somebody
2
putting up equity.
3
Q
4
don't have a hedge funds anymore, correct?
5
A
6
redeemed.
7
Q
8
others in the -- others in the investment world back in the
9
spring of 2007, would have disagreed with your thesis that
All of your investors redeem from the hedge funds, you
You would not have merchandise if all your investors
You would agree there is at least the possibility that
10
you offered here today?
11
A
12
I have no reason to believe one way or the other.
13
Q
14
economic thesis.
15
schools where you said you thought the economy was doing well
16
during the spring of 2007?
17
A
18
The problem during 2007 was the housing market, which
19
ultimately did impact upon large financial institutions in
20
2008.
21
Q
22
the spring of 2007 where you said some very favorable things,
23
how you felt about how these markets were doing, is that
24
right or wrong?
25
A
I'm sure people might disagree with any economic thesis.
In that time period were you offering a different
Didn't you give speeches at business
The economy was not a problem during the spring of 2007.
You gave a speech at the University of Milwaukee back in
I don't remember the markets.
HENRY SHAPIRO
It's quit possible that I
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2601
Hubbard-cross/McGovern
1
had good opinions on the economy at that time.
2
Q
3
could have changed from time to time, correct?
4
A
My opinions changes when I get new information, sir.
5
Q
Because you're a reasonable guy, right?
6
A
I'm saying economists use information.
7
reasonable guy, yes.
8
Q
9
own decision whether or not they want to redeem or stay in
And opinions are like -- you would agree your opinion
I think I'm a
Investors in a hedge funds have a right to make their
10
the hedge fund?
11
A
Absolutely.
12
Q
As you noted here one of the problems or I don't want to
13
overstate it, one of the bumps in the road perhaps for you
14
was that all of the investors wanted to get out in June of
15
2007 or a large percent wanted to get out.
16
here these investors ultimately decided to execute their
17
right to redeem from the fund, correct?
18
A
Yes, in June, after the period of my analysis, yes.
19
Q
The biggest investors in the Enhanced Fund put in
20
requests of 160 million dollars at the end of April?
21
A
Yes.
22
Q
You understand that?
23
A
Yes.
24
Q
Each investors in the hedge funds in your review -- have
25
you read the transcripts of everybody that testified at this
HENRY SHAPIRO
That was the case
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2602
Hubbard-cross/McGovern
1
trial?
2
A
No, sir, not everybody.
3
Q
You read most of the transcripts?
4
THE COURT:
You don't have to bend forward to try to
5
be heard.
Your voice will pickup fine. It maybe a
6
distraction.
7
Q
You read most of the transcripts?
8
A
No, sir.
9
Q
Which ones have you read?
10
A
I focused on Mr. Van Solkema.
11
to what I was doing.
12
Q
13
you were doing?
14
A
Because --
15
Q
That's the one that they gave you?
16
A
I asked for testimony that related to models that were
17
being used and that's what I received.
18
Q
And you received that and you read it?
19
A
Yes.
20
Q
You didn't read Howard Brown's testimony or Klaus
21
Chavanne's testimony or the guy from Fix, the biggest
22
investor in the fund, up didn't read his testimony?
23
A
No.
24
Q
And you would understand that each investor in a hedge
25
funds might actually have sort of a unique characteristics
It seemed most relevant
How would you know which one was most relevant to what
HENRY SHAPIRO
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2603
Hubbard-cross/McGovern
1
about their investing position.
2
Do you understand that?
3
A
Sure, each investor may have liquidity needs that are
4
particular to him or her.
5
Q
6
frankly be unreasonable?
7
A
They are free to have it.
8
Q
They are free to have mandate on their investment,
9
mandate that we're going to make absolute returns?
They might have an individual philosophy that might
10
A
They did have whatever mandate or philosophy they
11
wished.
12
Q
13
have a different strategy from the next investor?
14
A
Entirely possible.
15
Q
All you are saying, looking back on this, you think
16
reasonably, this might have worked, they might have -- the
17
defendants might have be able to pull this off, correct?
18
A
19
each of those month ends, January through April, the
20
economically reasonable outcome would have had a reasonable
21
outcome for the funds given what they knew at that time.
22
Q
We agree it went a different way?
23
A
For part of that time frame, yes.
24
Q
Your reasonable expectation.
25
that had reasonable expectations that were the opposite,
Each investors in a fund, even in their own mind, might
I'm saying more than that.
HENRY SHAPIRO
Given the information that
There are other people
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2604
Hubbard-cross/McGovern
1
true, you would agree with that?
2
A
3
different forecasts.
4
Q
5
investors in the same market place that ended up with
6
billions, you understand that?
7
A
They were pursuing different strategies, yes.
8
Q
Absolutely different strategies in the same markets,
9
correct?
I don't know what you mean by the opposite.
These funds ended up with no money, and there were other
10
A
That's what makes markets work, sir.
11
Q
Exactly, different opinions.
12
People have
So anyway, now these investors they can be a fickled
13
group of people, investors in hedge funds are going to ask a
14
lot of questions?
15
A
16
They may well ask questions, of course.
17
Q
18
different strategy, their questions may not always make
19
sense, correct?
20
A
21
make sense.
22
Q
23
limits of sophistication?
24
A
Yes, the general public.
25
Q
To be an investor in a hedge funds all you need is
I don't know if I would describe them as "fickled".
One guy as a crazy strategy and another one has a
It's not for me to decide whether investor questions
People can ask whatever questions they want.
You would similarly agree that investors have varied
HENRY SHAPIRO
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2605
Hubbard-cross/McGovern
1
$300,000 or a million dollars of net worth, is that your
2
understanding?
3
A
4
High Grades had minimal investment requirements that would be
5
higher than that.
6
Q
7
esteem Columbia Business School, correct?
8
A
9
written with respect to income test and net worth tests.
That is what it is to be an accredited investors.
Some
There is no requirement that you graduate from the
No, sir, the accredited investor requirements are
10
Q
11
fund, if you won Powerball, for instance, you could probably
12
get into a hedge funds, correct?
13
A
14
individual hedge funds and investors.
15
Q
16
actual level of sophistication in the markets, is that right?
17
A
18
designed to be a proxy for sophistication, they are based on
19
income and networth.
20
Q
21
rules.
22
If you win LOTO lot you could put money into a hedge
That's what an accredited investor is, it's up to the
It has nothing to do with ones level of education or
I'm not an attorney, accredited investors standards are
What does an attorney have to do with it, it's the
You are the dean of the Columbia Business School, you
23
don't know what the rules are to get into a hedge fund?
24
A
25
way for me to get into the legal history of the standards.
You asked and I answered. You can't infer -- there is no
HENRY SHAPIRO
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2606
Hubbard-cross/McGovern
1
Q
I wasn't -- I apologize for interrupting. I wasn't
2
asking for the legal history.
3
white, the rules -- the rules say to be a hedge fund investor
4
it's purely based on how much cash you have, right?
5
A
To be an accredited investor, that is a term of art.
6
Q
And some of these investors may not have really
7
understood these strategies that were laid out in the PPM,
8
correct?
9
10
THE COURT:
A
THE COURT:
Q
13
You are speculating.
All I am saying the strategies were clearly articulated.
11
12
I was asking for the black and
Move onto something else.
Some investors may have not read them.
MR. BUTSWINKAS:
14
THE COURT:
Your Honor -Move on.
15
Q
Some investors in hedge funds can tolerate losses more
16
than other investors, yes?
17
THE COURT:
I think, it's all argumentative.
18
MR. McGOVERN:
19
THE COURT:
Your Honor, he's an expert --
It has nothing to do with his expertise.
20
It's common sense that some people can handle more or less
21
losses.
22
Some are wealthier than others.
I don't think they are terribly probative. Move to
23
something else.
24
Q
25
the biggest investor in the Enhanced Fund was actually an
Based on the documents that you reviewed, did you learn
HENRY SHAPIRO
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2607
Hubbard-cross/McGovern
1
investor that was using leverage?
2
A
I really don't recall that, sorry.
3
Q
Do you understand what that means, that an investor in
4
the fund was using leverage?
5
A
6
course.
7
Q
8
investor's tolerance for losses?
9
A
10
You are asking me do I understand what leverage is, of
Do you know what that means as it relates to that
I couldn't possibly speculate.
That would depend on the
investor's net worth, other investments, the investors --
11
THE COURT:
There are a lots of intangibles.
12
Someone was borrowing money to put into the hedge
13
funds I think that was the question.
14
A
So what?
15
Q
If you are investing with borrowed money your tolerance
16
for losses maybe a little bit lower than the average
17
investor's?
18
A
I have no basis for answering that.
19
Q
And some of the investors -- to be fair, did you look
20
into who the investors were in this case?
21
A
I didn't look at the individual investors, no.
22
Q
You reviewed documents relating to the investors,
23
correct?
24
A
I saw some documents related to the investors.
25
Q
If I may, looking at your reports, you reviewed
HENRY SHAPIRO
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2608
Hubbard-cross/McGovern
1
documents that were supplied by investors, during the course
2
of this case, right?
3
A
Yes, sir.
4
Q
And Tremont would have been -- are up familiar with
5
that?
6
A
Yes.
7
Q
It was a fund of funds?
8
A
Yes.
9
Q
You understand there were other funds of funds type
10
investors in these two hedge funds, the Enhanced and the High
11
Grade Fund?
12
A
Yes.
13
Q
Funds to funds are institutional that in many instances
14
would have their own risks departments, is that right?
15
A
They certainly may.
16
Q
They would be investors who would be capable of making
17
gone their own investment decisions about whether to stay or
18
go from a hedge funds?
19
A
I cannot recall whether they are capable or not.
20
Q
Now, your opinions here are based on your review of the
21
data and whatever other information that you were given by
22
the defense attorneys about what the state of affairs were
23
back during the spring of 2007, is that right?
24
A
25
affairs would likely be going forward, yes, drawn from the
Partially and also my analysis of what the state of
HENRY SHAPIRO
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2609
Hubbard-cross/McGovern
1
same data and information to assess crisis.
2
Q
3
that is what is guiding your opinions in this case, correct?
4
A
5
that same data to model strategies and returns.
6
data driven exercise.
7
Q
8
viewed about the state of the markets back during that period
9
of the spring of 2007.
What you are saying, it's not just looking at the data
In parts, it's looking at the data and in part its using
It's looking at the data and you offering what you
10
THE COURT:
11
getting repetitious.
12
already.
13
14
It's all a
Doesn't that play --
I think, with all due respect we are
We've gone over this a lot of times
If you can focus on something that you have not
touched on, go ahead.
15
MR. McGOVERN:
16
THE COURT:
Sure, your Honor.
We'll have redirect.
I'm going to allow
17
for that, and you'll have ample opportunity to further these
18
types of things.
19
to something else.
20
Q
21
assuming that all the data that you were given were accurate.
22
I want to make sure?
23
A
I think we're getting repetitious.
You accepted this data driven exercise.
The data that I used, yes.
24
THE COURT:
25
Go ahead.
Move on
You are
The transaction data--.
It was material furnished to you.
HENRY SHAPIRO
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2610
Hubbard-cross/McGovern
1
Q
Do you understand that there are potentially accuracy
2
problems with the PORSHA data that you were provided?
3
A
There may be well be with any data.
4
Q
Those were actually like alive database or live data
5
basis in the spring of 2007.
6
A
7
the analysis that you are asking me about, simply for
8
classifying securities by rating.
Yes, but those data wouldn't have figured prominently in
9
10
Do you understand that?
THE COURT:
Mr. McGovern, we can move beyond that.
He relied upon the data, explained the data.
11
If you have something specific to point out about
12
that, if their is any mistaken information, go ahead. Let's
13
move on.
14
Q
15
case.
16
here in this case were the same that were held by the people
17
who are investing in the funds during the spring of 2007,
18
correct?
19
A
20
the analysis that I did.
21
Q
22
spring of 2007, were looking for information about the funds,
23
where would they look?
24
A
25
at information on the underlying asset markets that these
Just finishing the thought of the investors in this
You don't know if any of the opinions that you offered
I have no way of knowing.
It would not be relating to
If those people who invested in these funds in the
If I understanding your question, they would be looking
HENRY SHAPIRO
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2611
Hubbard-cross/McGovern
1
funds are investing in.
2
investors-- based on the strategy, based on what I believe
3
was happening and the markets and the prospect for returns.
4
Q
5
all of that information?
6
A
7
could have used them.
8
Q
The portfolio was publicly available?
9
A
The portfolio, prices, these are publicly available.
10
Q
You are not talking about whether this portfolio in
11
particular was available to the general public, correct?
12
A
13
that is not true.
Do you know if the investors actually were provided with
The data that you used were publicly available.
That's not true, sir.
14
hedge funds.
16
public?
Anybody
You know if you read the report
I did use the individual --
THE COURT:
15
17
I would form my opinion -- potential
Why don't you explain.
You have the
Is that information available to the general
THE WITNESS:
What I did was to use the actual end
18
of month information on the ABX and ABX holdings that is
19
known to the fund.
20
What I used was the publicly available information
21
to get a sense whether the managers could have believed that.
22
That is the question.
23
(Followed on next page.)
24
25
HENRY SHAPIRO
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
R. Hubbard - Cross/Mr. McGovern
1
THE COURT:
2
3
2612
The basic -- let me ask you this.
Is the basic portfolio information, can any
investor find out what's in the portfolio at any given name?
4
THE WITNESS:
No.
Investors in hedge funds would
5
not know specific assets in a portfolio.
6
strategy.
7
THE COURT:
8
THE WITNESS:
9
THE COURT:
They would know the
They would know the strategy.
Right.
But the knowledge of what's contained
10
in the portfolio, would that just be unique to the managers
11
of the portfolio and not available to the general public?
12
THE WITNESS:
There may be commentary but,
13
generally speaking, hedge funds are not vehicles in which
14
investors don't have that kind of granular information.
15
THE COURT:
That's what I want to understand.
16
an investor wanted to find out what was in the portfolio,
17
what would that investor do?
18
19
20
THE WITNESS:
anything.
If
An investor could ask questions about
It might be particular tranches or -THE COURT:
So, the information would come by the
21
investors asking questions of the managers of the funds and
22
that's how they would learn what to do in the portfolio.
23
just want to get a clear understanding of it.
24
25
THE WITNESS:
Yes, sir.
That would be one way.
Another way might be the managers themselves disclosing
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
I
R. Hubbard - Cross/Mr. McGovern
1
information.
2
talked about in particular --
3
2613
In some of the conference calls, the manager
THE COURT:
The source of information would come
4
from the managers.
5
your mouth, I just want to understand whether that's how
6
hedge funds work.
7
8
I mean, I don't want to put words into
THE WITNESS:
Yes, sir.
This is very different
from, say, a mutual fund or something like that.
9
THE COURT:
Explain the difference to the jurors.
10
THE WITNESS:
Again, here, the investors in a hedge
11
fund are investing in a strategy.
12
would typically tell an investor very little about the
13
individual assets that the investor holds.
14
different strategy than, say, a typical strategy where I
15
might know the portfolio of assets that you buy.
16
EXAMINATION
17
BY MR. MCGOVERN:
18
(Continuing.)
19
Q
This has also been referred to as "black box."
20
A
It would seem like a black box.
21
individual things that you're having to buy.
22
strategy.
23
It not disclosed what it is.
24
Q
25
very careful about disclosing what assets they're actually
The hedge fund manager
It's just a very
Right?
You don't know the
You buy a
That's what it means by buying into a hedge fund.
In general, hedge funds managers are very proprietary or
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
R. Hubbard - Cross/Mr. McGovern
2614
1
holding.
2
A
3
added.
4
don't want to give enough information for me to pick it up.
5
So, yes, it's a competing way for hedge fund managers to
6
distinguish themselves and this, of course, is widely
7
understood by hedge fund investors.
8
9
Isn't that right?
Well, that's part of their trading strategy and value
If you have a superior strategy relative to me, you
THE COURT:
with each other.
Basically, hedge funds are competing
One would not want the other one to know
10
what the portfolio was because that would sort of give a clue
11
to the other hedge funds about what they were doing and might
12
change the strategy decisions.
13
understanding.
14
THE WITNESS:
I want to get a common-sense
Yes, sir.
I might have a particular
15
view vintage of mortgages and a tranche of RMBS or CDOs.
16
may not want the market to generally share that view, I may
17
view it as my insight which is my proprietary --
18
THE COURT:
19
I
I think you've helped to explain this.
Go ahead.
Next question.
20
EXAMINATION
21
BY MR. MCGOVERN:
22
(Continuing.)
23
Q
24
information about what was in the portfolio or what was going
25
on in the portfolio would have to be a conversation with the
So I understand.
The source of any follow-up
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
R. Hubbard - Cross/Mr. McGovern
2615
1
managers either on conference calls or pick up the phone and
2
call the manager; right?
3
A
4
important thing of what's going on in the portfolio would be
5
returns and, of course, those are disclosed monthly to
6
investors.
7
Q
Yes.
8
A
Why the --
9
10
If I understand your question, that's not true.
MR. BUTSWINKAS:
THE COURT:
One
Can he finish the answer.
If I were an investor, could I call up
11
somebody and say, "I want to know what's in the portfolio."
12
You're the manager, let's say I'm just curious as to what
13
you're investing in, is that something that the investors are
14
entitled to know?
15
THE WITNESS:
I can't give you a legal opinion.
16
The practical answer economic answer would be no.
17
happen is a disclosure of types of bets that you're taking or
18
directing your attention in a strategy, and the particular
19
conference calls that are in this record are replete with
20
those examples.
21
would not be subject, typically, of a conversation.
22
What might
But whether I'm holding this particular QSIP
THE COURT:
23
///
24
///
25
///
Next question.
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
R. Hubbard - Cross/Mr. McGovern
2616
1
EXAMINATION
2
BY MR. MCGOVERN:
3
(Continuing.)
4
Q
5
information that you relied on for your opinion, that being
6
an organization of data and all the things about the
7
portfolio other than what it is you knew about the economy
8
and the market at that time.
So, would you agree that the vast majority of the
9
All that information, that data that was
10
provided to you, would have been nonpublic information during
11
the spring of 2007.
12
A
13
market prior forecasts.
No, sir.
14
Would you agree with that?
Again, viability assumptions depends on these
THE COURT:
So, let me phrase it this way.
15
information is nonpublic and some information would be
16
public.
17
18
19
Some
Is that what I glean from your answers?
THE WITNESS:
That's correct.
But all available to
the manager which is what's economically --
20
THE COURT:
21
THE WITNESS:
22
THE COURT:
All available?
Yes.
Can you give us some sense of what
23
falls into the public realm of things and what would fall
24
into the nonpublic or maybe that's an oversimplification.
25
THE WITNESS:
Certainly, Your Honor.
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
R. Hubbard - Cross/Mr. McGovern
1
2617
An example of something that would be
2
nonpublic would be the particular elements of the portfolio
3
as opposed to the broad brush.
4
be the data on information on ABX contracts that are
5
disclosed daily by Markit which is a service --
6
M-a-r-k-i-t -- of, for example, the housing price forecast.
7
The economic question is whether the managers would
8
reasonably see this as viable.
9
The public information would
So, it's fair to look at all the information a
10
manager could see, but yes, it would look at whether there
11
would be both public and nonpublic information.
12
THE COURT:
I'm not so sure I understand what would
13
be public and what would be nonpublic, how you draw the line.
14
I mean, you have a way of explaining it, but maybe it's a
15
good thing I went to law school instead of business school.
16
Try it again.
17
THE WITNESS:
There is a simple bright line.
18
Anything I'm doing about the market:
19
forecasts, derivative contracts on housing, mortgages, taxes
20
all that stuff is public data.
21
Housing price
I'm going to use a model but I'm using public
22
data.
23
Portia of data would be known to the manager but not
24
generally known to the members of the investing public.
25
The individual elements and transactions a so-called
THE COURT:
I think you explained it.
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
Any other
R. Hubbard - Cross/Mr. McGovern
1
2618
questions now?
2
MR. MCGOVERN:
Sure.
3
EXAMINATION
4
BY MR. MCGOVERN:
5
(Continuing.)
6
Q
7
whether or not the managers would have believed there to have
8
been a viable strategy during the spring of 2007.
You keep on saying that the whole issue in this case is
9
Am I understanding that?
10
A
That's the central economic issue, yes.
11
Q
Did you have any idea whether or not that issue has
12
anything to do with the criminal charges in this case?
13
MR. BUTSWINKAS:
14
MS. BRUNE:
Objection.
15
THE COURT:
Sustained.
16
Q
Your Honor, this is.
If I may just for general here.
17
You offered some testimony there on your
18
direct examination about the hedges should have probably
19
worked after?
20
21
MR. BUTSWINKAS:
Q
After the --
22
THE COURT:
23
Q
24
imploded.
25
Objection.
Let me hear the question.
What would have happened with the hedges after THE fund
Would that accurately characterize your
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
R. Hubbard - Cross/Mr. McGovern
1
2619
testimony?
2
MR. BUTSWINKAS:
Mischaracterizes the testimony.
3
A
I did the calculation and I know the prices so I know
4
that, yes, they would have worked.
5
THE COURT:
The witness is qualified.
6
Go ahead.
7
So, your testimony is that if the funds hadn't
8
blown up, that the fund actually could have made money on the
9
hedges.
10
THE WITNESS:
Anything else?
That is indeed my testimony.
11
hedges I know the prices it's just arithmetic, sir.
12
EXAMINATION
13
BY MR. MCGOVERN:
14
(Continuing.)
15
Q
16
anything?
17
18
Yes.
And so, what does that really have to do with
THE COURT:
Well, all right.
MR. MCGOVERN:
20
THE COURT:
21
we'll do redirect.
22
Mr. Butswinkas.
24
25
Let's not go there.
Do you have any other probative questions?
19
23
I know
I don't have anything else.
Let's take our morning break and then
I don't mean to cut you short
Who will be doing the redirect?
MS. BRUNE:
Ms. Brune?
I will continue to inquire given what I
understand about what Your Honor said about latitude.
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
R. Hubbard - Redirect/Ms. Brune
1
MR. BUTSWINKAS:
2
THE COURT:
3
At this point I'm going to watch.
Members of the jury, come back 25 to
12:00.
4
COURTROOM DEPUTY:
5
(Jury exits courtroom at 12:21 p.m.)
6
(Witness leaves the witness stand.)
7
(Recess taken.)
8
(Witness takes the witness stand.)
9
THE COURT:
10
2620
All rise.
All right.
Let's bring the jurors back
in.
11
You folks should sit down.
12
COURTROOM DEPUTY:
All rise.
13
(Jury enters courtroom at 12:51 p.m.)
14
COURTROOM DEPUTY:
15
THE COURT:
Ms. Brune, go ahead.
16
MS. BRUNE:
Thank you.
17
REDIRECT EXAMINATION
18
BY MS. BRUNE:
19
Q
20
records of the funds to determine what the fund's actual
21
portfolios actually were?
22
A
Yes, ma'am.
23
Q
Can you give us a breakdown of the ABS securities that
24
are held in each of the two funds?
25
A
You all may be seated.
You previously testified that you used the books and
The ABS securities were rated with triple A, double A,
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
R. Hubbard - Redirect/Ms. Brune
1
2621
and single A and so on.
2
My recollection is that the combination of
3
double A and triple A is on the order of 90 percent pore both
4
funds with a balance being in single A or lower or nonrated
5
securities.
6
Q
7
the funds used other kinds of financing other than repo
8
loans?
9
A
Yes.
10
Q
What other kinds of financing did you find in your work?
11
A
The funds also had credit facilities that were backed by
12
commercial paper throughout their life; that is, some assets
13
contributed to a vehicle, commercial paper, issued against
14
that vehicle typically guaranteed by a commercial bank.
You determined, in arriving at your conclusions, that
15
In the Enhanced Leverage Fund that would be
16
the Barclay's vehicle.
Toward the end of this time period,
17
in spring of 2007, another vehicle for Bank of America.
18
There was an earlier vehicle called KLIO from Citi.
19
Q
20
America facility, as significant in reaching your
21
conclusions?
22
A
Yes.
23
Q
And how so?
24
A
Well, the facility would allow extra liquidity for two
25
things:
Did you view the facility that was coming, the Bank of
Both for the placement of existing assets and also
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
R. Hubbard - Redirect/Ms. Brune
2622
1
the ability to acquire new assets as credit spreads widened.
2
Q
3
sufficient operational liquidity?
4
A
5
performed by the funds seemed reasonable.
6
yes.
7
Q
8
the funds did not have sufficient operational liquidity?
9
A
During the period of your analysis, did the funds have
The judgment that I reached was that the liquidity tests
So in that sense,
Was there at any point before the end of the story that
If by that you mean from the fund's own internal
10
guidelines.
11
describe yellow lights flashing; that is, a need to rebuild
12
liquidity in the High-Grade Fund.
13
There were a couple of periods in which I would
And that liquidity rebuilding could happen
14
from delevering; that is, selling assets or from raising
15
additional funds.
16
first part of 2007, the funds had met their internal
17
liquidity guidelines.
18
Q
19
liquidity guidelines?
20
A
21
roughly on the order of weekly, were a series of stress
22
tests.
23
undergone stress tests.
24
25
But for most of the period at issue in the
And would you explain a little more about the internal
Certainly.
What the funds had done periodically,
And just like recently, big commercial banks have
In the current period, it's the same idea.
You would look at the worst experience that you could have in
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
R. Hubbard - Redirect/Ms. Brune
2623
1
a particular asset class and the stress test that they did
2
was assume the worst experience simultaneously in all asset
3
classes and then assume that the hair cut, the additional
4
collateral posting for the repo facilities, increased by
5
50 percent.
Assume both of those.
6
The series of stress tests.
The liquidity
7
tests on that was a target was the fund would have enough
8
liquidity, a hundred percent, to meet a short fall associated
9
with that stress test.
That's the test the funds performed.
10
Q
Was there anything about the liquidity cushion that's
11
reflected there that suggested that the High-Grade Fund
12
should shut down?
13
A
14
were yellow lights, a need to rebuild, I saw nothing in the
15
transactions that indicate any kind of forced selling or
16
distressed selling to do that.
17
both available and obtained by both of the funds during the
18
first four months of 2007.
19
Q
20
ever any yellow lights flashing as you described it?
21
A
I don't recall any during that period.
22
Q
Based on your analysis, did you see a response to the
23
liquidity cushion issue in the High-Grade Fund?
24
A
Yes.
25
Q
Were those forced sells?
No.
Not at all.
Indeed, even in periods in which there
I know that new money was
And how about the Enhanced Leverage Fund.
Were there
The response being typically to sell assets.
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
R. Hubbard - Redirect/Ms. Brune
No.
2624
1
A
The way I would determine a forced sale would be at
2
prices that were at great different from recently prevailing
3
market prices because I have information on the individual
4
transactions.
5
recent market prices, so I wouldn't describe them as forced I
6
would see them as meeting a prudent internal guideline.
7
Q
8
hedges were not working as expected.
9
funds should shut down?
I did look at this and I saw no departure from
You testified already that at points in 2007, the credit
No.
Did that mean that the
10
A
What it meant was that the funds had to then make a
11
decision about whether they believed that the movement in the
12
credit hedges, to be specific, housing prices are going down.
13
Instead of credit hedges going down, they were going up.
14
In March, and much of April, should they
15
believe that the word had changed to use traditional
16
statistical methods they, and what I did in the report, did
17
the latter.
18
So, there's no inference that one could draw
19
that you should shut down the furnished.
20
Q
21
begin working as expected?
22
A
23
will have.
24
hedges had been held, and the funds had continued, they would
25
have been very profitable.
Was it reasonable to expect that the hedges would again
Well, it was not only reasonable to expect that, they
I did the arithmetic exercise, and assuming the
The aberration that appeared in
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
R. Hubbard - Redirect/Ms. Brune
2625
1
the ABX market in March and April subsequently reversed, that
2
is, continued its downward trend.
3
Q
4
assumed and predicted that housing prices would go down?
5
A
6
would go down based on the data I had available to me.
7
Q
8
housing prices would go down yet, nonetheless, you would
9
project a -- reasonably project, rather, a positive return
I believe that you testified that in your model, you
Yes.
For the duration of 2007, I assumed housing prices
Can you explain to the jury, then, how it could be that
10
for the funds?
11
A
12
ways, I should say.
13
off the ABS portfolio which had to be Markit.
14
off these hedges.
15
Certainly.
Remember there are two ways, principals
The funds were earning returns, one was
The other was
If you were net short particular hedges you
16
could make money even when housing prices fell.
17
particular what the funds did was go net short some Portia
18
vintages such as the damages '06-1 and the triple B tranche
19
of those vintages which essentially said, "We believe that
20
the conditions in the mortgage market will deteriorate," that
21
was the bet and that's how you could expect to make more
22
money because the price of the ABX contracts moved some which
23
gave much more greater bang for the buck if you will, for
24
hedges against the lower rated securities than the
25
higher-rated securities.
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
So, in
R. Hubbard - Redirect/Ms. Brune
2626
1
Q
Would you explain for the jury what Relative Value
2
Trading is?
3
A
4
mismatched pricing opportunities at the level of CDOs or
5
portions of CDOs and a relative value trade plight be to
6
acquire one and short another.
Sure.
7
Relative Value Trading would be looking for
The Relative Value Trading was part of the
8
fund's strategy.
In the calculations that I did that assumed
9
forward-looking profitability, I didn't even include relative
10
value trades because there is no reason for me to get in the
11
heads of managers to know what they would have done or
12
wouldn't haven't done before there was an opportunity.
13
Q
14
an up market and a down market?
15
A
16
these pair-wise comparisons of mispriced assets.
17
reason to expect that those trades are more available in up
18
markets and down markets.
19
very high volatility which, of course, characterized this
20
period.
21
Q
22
some assets during March and April.
23
Were relative value trades available to make profits in
Sure.
What relative value means is you're just doing
There's no
They're more available in times of
You already mentioned that the High-Grade Funds sold
Did the fact that the High-Grade Funds sold
24
some assets change your opinion about whether the fund could
25
reasonably be expected to make money for investors?
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
R. Hubbard - Redirect/Ms. Brune
No.
2627
1
A
Again, that has to do with internal liquidity
2
guidelines.
3
repo lenders who were making the really high-frequency
4
decision by and large, changed their hair cuts not at all.
5
Any margin call they made was met.
And I would note that during that period, the
6
So, there was simply nothing in the
7
environment that would point in that direction.
8
Q
9
which Mr. Cioffi indicates to salespeople that he's not
Have you reviewed e-mails in the March 2007 timeframe in
10
buying?
11
A
I have seen at least one such e-mail.
12
Q
Does that in any way change your opinion?
13
A
No.
14
what that particular sell-side person wants to sell or simply
15
a negotiation.
16
on the e-mail.
17
It could well be that a lack of interest in buying
I have no way of inferring or doing exegesis
MR. MCGOVERN:
I object and move to strike that
18
exegesis.
He's being asked to speculate about what
19
Mr. Cioffi was clearly saying otherwise.
20
MS. BRUNE:
The prosecutor started this.
21
THE COURT:
The jury heard it, let's not dwell on
22
23
24
25
it.
I will give you a little bit of latitude,
don't take advantage of my largess.
MS. BRUNE:
I will try not to, Your Honor.
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
Thank
R. Hubbard - Redirect/Ms. Brune
1
you.
2
EXAMINATION
3
BY MS. BRUNE:
4
(Continuing.)
5
Q
6
buying assets?
7
A
Yes.
8
Q
And finally.
2628
During the March and April time period, were the funds
9
You were asked by the prosecutor about some
10
e-mails relating to closing the High-Grade Fund in March of
11
2007.
12
Did you see those e-mails?
13
A
Yes, I did.
14
Q
Did they change your opinion?
15
A
No.
16
be perhaps in the best interest to move investors from the
17
High-Grade Fund to the Enhanced Liquidity Fund because of the
18
superior Barclay's lending facility that was available that
19
requires no exegesis.
20
text of the e-mail.
21
Q
22
together in the Enhanced Leverage Fund?
23
A
24
liquidity for both refinancing and acquiring new assets.
25
it would have been possibly in the interest of shareholders
What the e-mails clearly stated was that it would
That was clearly spelled out in the
What would be the advantage of putting the two funds
Barclay's facility would have provided abundant
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
So,
R. Hubbard - Recross/Mr. McGovern
1
to do that.
2
make.
2629
That's a decision the managers would have to
3
MS. BRUNE:
No further questions.
4
THE COURT:
Anything further, Mr. McGovern?
5
RECROSS-EXAMINATION
6
BY MR. McGOVERN:
7
Q
8
Ms. Brune, that didn't close until May 22nd of 2007, isn't
9
that right?
The Bank of America facility that you discussed with
10
A
That's my understanding.
I think the signing was on
11
March 9th with closing in May, yes.
12
Q
That involved a lot of money; correct?
13
A
I think it was a little over $4 billion, something like
14
that.
15
Q
16
$4 billion of CDO money to help matters at the fund, isn't
17
that right?
18
A
I don't know that I could necessarily say that, no.
19
Q
And you had testified that, as far as you could tell,
20
that liquidity wasn't a problem or you didn't see any yellow
21
lights during the Spring of 2007; right?
22
A
23
management; yes.
24
Q
25
in both the High-Grade Fund and the Enhanced Fund was because
And by that point it was really too late for that
That was my testimony based on the fund's internal
You know that the reason that they suspended redemptions
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
R. Hubbard - Recross/Mr. McGovern
1
of a lack of liquidity to permit them to meet the
2
redemptions.
3
A
4
asked which was January through April.
5
Q
6
after the fund's collapse; is that right?
7
A
8
years ago, sure.
9
Q
10
2630
Do you know that?
That is out of the period in which the question I was
By the way, your analysis of this fund occurred years
Well, it occurred recently and I would say a couple of
Okay.
Would you have deferred to the portfolio
11
managers who were dealing with the -- with their
12
counterparties in the marketplace as to what was actually
13
going on during that period of time?
14
A
15
I'm not sure what you're asking me.
What I was asked to do was use the information
16
anyone could have had in real-time.
17
in the head of managers.
18
Q
19
I can't, of course, be
I think you said that.
And you don't know what Mr. Cioffi and
20
Mr. Tannin were actually thinking during this period of time
21
the spring of 2007, right?
22
A
There's no way I could know that.
23
Q
There's no way you could know that.
24
25
And that information, again, you're talking
about was not available to anyone, was it?
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
R. Hubbard - Recross/Mr. McGovern
2631
1
A
Well, I can't accept that, sir, because the conference
2
calls clearly talked about specific bets, and because I have
3
access to the data, I am available to ascertain that those
4
bets were, in fact, taken.
5
Q
6
access to the Portia database or the information in the
7
portfolio?
8
A
9
but certainly that's true.
You have access to the data.
That's correct.
10
Q
11
analysis, sir.
They are not relevant for my analysis
I can't answer questions about what's relevant for your
12
13
The investors never had
Did you do that addition on the hedges after
the fund's collapsed, right?
14
You said that it is the simple addition.
You
15
added it up and the funds would have made money on hedges?
16
A
Yes.
17
Q
Is that the only way that these funds made money on
18
hedges?
19
A
No.
20
Q
In fact, they made money on their long positions as
21
well; correct?
22
A
23
and occasionally on the hedge positions and on relative value
24
trades and capital structure arbitrage.
25
of ways they made money.
Traditionally, they made money on both the ABS positions
There are a number
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
R. Hubbard - Recross/Mr. McGovern
2632
1
Q
One of the reasons you hedge, you hedge against your
2
long positions not working out; is that right?
3
A
4
to speculate, that is, take a net position because you have a
5
view.
6
Q
7
doing at the time that the you figured out that the hedges
8
would have been doing so well in I guess July or August of
9
2007?
That would be the hedging motive.
You might also wish
Did you ever analyze how the firm's long positions were
10
A
Well, we know the long positions decline in value as the
11
credit spreads widen.
12
declines goes up.
13
Q
14
2007?
15
A
16
time.
17
Q
The question is whether the net
Were the long positions, like, zero as of August of
Funds had closed, so the equity value was zero at that
So, you don't think that that's relevant.
18
The question of how much money the fund would
19
have made during that period of time that all of their long
20
positions had disappeared?
21
A
22
actual facts.
23
knew the position.
24
hindsight.
25
Q
You're confusing ex-ante and ex-post.
The question is:
You're quoting
What's known at the time you
It would great if we all had 20/20
I agree with you.
I'm sure -- we'll talk about ex-ante
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
R. Hubbard - Recross/Mr. McGovern
1
2633
and ex-post some other time.
2
You looked at these e-mails and these e-mails
3
that were shown to you, none of them changed your view that a
4
reasonable portfolio manager in this period of time would
5
have believed that their fund might actually blow up,
6
correct?
7
A
8
that is yes.
9
my mind.
There's a lot in that question.
I think the answer to
I didn't see anything that would have changed
10
Q
Were you shown all of the e-mails in this case?
11
A
I'm sure I didn't see every e-mail in this case.
12
Q
Were you ever shown Exhibit 100?
13
A
You'll forgive me if I don't remember all the exhibit
14
numbers and bait stamped, numbers.
15
MS. BRUNE:
Your Honor, sidebar, please.
16
THE COURT:
What's the next question?
17
Sustained as to that question.
18
Q
Dr. Hubbard, the only e-mails that you saw in this case
19
were the ones that were provided to you by Ms. Brune; is that
20
right?
21
A
22
to be gathered.
23
Ms. Brune particularly.
24
Q
25
the full set; right?
I had asked at the beginning for a whole set of e-mails
I don't know whether they came from
And you have no way of knowing whether or not you got
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
Colloquy
1
2
THE COURT:
We went through this before.
MR. MCGOVERN:
4
THE COURT:
Any other questions?
5
MS. BRUNE:
No, Your Honor.
6
THE COURT:
Thank you very much.
That's it.
You may step
down.
8
THE WITNESS:
9
MR. BUTSWINKAS:
10
Anything
else?
3
7
2634
Thank you, sir.
Your Honor, may we approach
briefly.
11
THE COURT:
Before the next witness.
12
MR. BUTSWINKAS:
13
THE COURT:
14
(Proceedings continued on next page.)
Yes.
All right.
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
Colloquy
2635
1
2
(Sidebar conference held on the record in the
3
presence of the Court and counsel, out of the hearing of the
4
jury.)
5
THE COURT:
Okay.
6
MR. BUTSWINKAS:
Yes, Mr. Butswinkas.
I would like to have a few minutes
7
to consult with Ms. Brune about what we're going to do at
8
this point in time.
9
THE COURT:
10
11
Do you want me to send the jurors out to lunch
at this particular time.
12
13
All right.
MR. BUTSWINKAS:
I think that will be very
convenient.
14
THE COURT:
Have them come back at 2:00.
Is there
15
a possibility that there may not be any other witnesses this
16
afternoon?
17
MR. BUTSWINKAS:
18
THE COURT:
It's a possibility.
All right.
We'll send them out to
19
lunch now and come back at 2:00.
20
things to discuss in terms of your charges and everything
21
else like that.
22
resting, I guess; right?
23
And then we'll have lots of
And if that be the case, then you'll be
MS. BRUNE:
There are some documents we would like
24
to offer and there are some evidentiary issues that need to
25
be ironed out.
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
Colloquy
1
2
3
4
MR. BUTSWINKAS:
2636
Aside from those ministerial
issues.
THE COURT:
The Government is aware if there is any
rebuttal case that you want to reflect upon.
5
MR. MCGOVERN:
6
THE COURT:
We'll reflect.
Because I told the jurors that there
7
was a possibility we could have summations tomorrow, and if
8
we let them go home early this will give us all the time we
9
need to fine tune the charge and use the time to
10
11
constructively do that.
MR. BUTSWINKAS:
I don't know if the Court will
12
consider this.
13
and Friday?
14
like to streamline what I say.
15
THE COURT:
16
Is it possible to do the closings on Thursday
It's a large record, a lot of documents, I would
Well, you know, let's talk about that
when we send the jurors out to lunch, all right.
17
MR. BUTSWINKAS:
Okay.
18
MS. BRUNE:
19
(Sidebar concludes.)
20
(Continued on next page.)
Thank you, Your Honor.
21
22
23
24
25
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
Colloquy
1
(In open court.)
2
THE COURT:
2637
I mentioned before that this is one of
3
these staccato moments.
4
lunch and you will have an extended lunch period because we
5
have lots to talk about.
6
7
Where going to let you go out to
When you return, at that time, we'll let you
know what's going on with the case.
8
(Jury exits courtroom at 1:11 p.m.)
9
THE COURT:
10
Everyone be seated.
Continuing the dialogue that we had at
11
sidebar.
You want to let me know at 2 o'clock whether you're
12
going to have anybody else to call or do you want a few
13
minutes now and then let me know.
14
MR. BUTSWINKAS:
15
THE COURT:
16
17
18
19
Whatever the Court's preference.
No, what's your preference?
I mean
these are tense moments.
MS. BRUNE:
You're right about that.
I think I
would like some time to consult.
THE COURT:
At 2 o'clock.
And then you tell me
20
whether there are going to be any additional witnesses that
21
the defense wishes to call.
22
would reflect upon whether you might want any rebuttal
23
testimony or evidence, okay?
24
25
The Government, in the interim,
Ms. Brune, you have some documents that you
will like to offer as evidence?
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
Colloquy
2638
1
Have you spoken to the Government about those
2
documents so we don't have to get involved with any back and
3
forth on that.
4
lunchtime so that we can be on board.
5
Are they aware of them?
MS. BRUNE:
Do that over
Unless things have changed, and the
6
position with the Government has changed, they object to each
7
and every one of the documents that we want to be included.
8
9
THE COURT:
If you want, you can look at documents
in anticipation of having to make rulings.
Give them to
10
Mr. Cone, my trusted law clerk, so that he can talk to me
11
about that and we can chat about that at lunchtime.
12
How many documents are there?
13
MS. KEELEY:
14
THE COURT:
Ms. Brune has a couple hundred.
15
MS. BRUNE:
There's about a dozen.
16
We have three on behalf of Mr. Cioffi.
Excuse me, my colleague told me there's about
17
four or five.
18
other fall into, I believe, completing what documents have
19
already been --
20
21
But, in any event, they all one way or the
THE COURT:
Maybe we can do
this quickly.
22
I will speak with Ms. Keeley first.
23
MS. KEELEY:
24
THE COURT:
25
Give me an example.
evidence here?
I can give you an example first.
Which documents do you wish to have in
You have a couple hundred already.
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
Colloquy
1
2
MS. KEELEY:
THE COURT:
4
MS. KEELEY:
Just a second 1828.
Along with Government Exhibit 2 which
has already been admitted.
6
7
The first is Defendant's Exhibit 1828
which I can hand up to the Court.
3
5
THE COURT:
1828.
MR. MCGOVERN:
9
THE COURT:
Yes, Your Honor.
And you have two others that you want
to talk about now.
11
MS. KEELEY:
12
13
Yes, Your Honor.
A marketing agreement which has been already
stipulated as far as authenticity.
14
THE COURT:
15
MR. SINCLAIR:
16
THE COURT:
17
Do you have an opinion about that?
Relevance.
What's your objection to the proposed
1828?
18
MR. SINCLAIR:
19
THE COURT:
20
You have an objection to that
will Mr. Sinclair.
8
10
2639
It's a hearsay, Your Honor.
Hearsay, okay.
I'm just getting your
objections.
21
What else?
22
MR. SINCLAIR:
23
MS. KEELEY:
The last one also under Rule of
24
Completeness is Defendant's Exhibit 1960 which is to
25
complete --
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
Colloquy
1
2
THE COURT:
Any problem, Mr. Sinclair?
MR. SINCLAIR:
4
THE COURT:
5
MR. SINCLAIR:
6
THE COURT:
Right.
It's a one-liner.
Any fuss over this?
We can let it in.
1960 can go into evidence.
MS. KEELEY:
9
THE COURT:
Yes, Your Honor.
We'll make a formal entry.
MR. SINCLAIR:
May I please understand what the
11
issue is with respect to Government Exhibit 2.
12
unaware of, Ms. Keeley.
13
THE COURT:
14
the luncheon recess.
MS. BEATTIE:
16
THE COURT:
17
MS. BEATTIE:
18
That I was
Why don't you talk to each other over
15
19
Then we'll
tell that to the jurors when they return.
8
10
It's from
canon.
3
7
2640
We can explain that here.
Anything else?
We have a couple, Your Honor.
So, Defendant's Exhibit 1960 is actually the
continuation of a chain --
20
THE COURT:
21
MS. BEATTIE:
22
1960 is going to be in evidence.
I'm sorry.
So then we have 1848 and 1849 which are a pair
23
of e-mails that go to the defendant's state of mind and I'll
24
hand them up.
25
THE COURT:
Just one second.
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
Colloquy
1
2641
Mr. Sinclair, you have those?
2
MR. SINCLAIR:
I do, Your Honor.
These are hearsay
3
being offered by the defendant who is not testifying here.
4
So, we think this is precluded under Rule 801.
5
6
THE COURT:
We've been a little flexible here under
the so-called concept of completeness, right?
7
MR. SINCLAIR:
I think that makes sense on the
8
Government's case when the defendant is offering this in
9
their case it's entirely different, Your Honor.
10
THE COURT:
11
MS. BEATTIE:
1848 and 1849 are the same.
They're slightly different, Your
12
Honor, but I agree that they go together and 1848 goes to the
13
defendant's state of mind.
14
15
THE COURT:
Well, the defendant can testify as to
his state of mind.
16
MR. SINCLAIR:
17
THE COURT:
18
19
20
21
22
23
And Mr. Quental.
Just doing that you are reinforcing the
fact.
MR. SINCLAIR:
And Mr. Quental could have been
questioned on this document.
MS. BEATTIE:
The Government put in through Dengler
that they could have put in through witnesses.
THE COURT:
I only rule on objections when they
24
come to my attention.
You're making the specific
25
application; I'm going to make a specific ruling.
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
Colloquy
1
2642
It is hearsay that there is no question that
2
the issues goes to the state of mind of the defendants.
3
they want to testify, they can so testify.
4
can't get it in through the back door so I'm not going to
5
allow 1848 and 1849 in evidence.
6
meet the standard for completion and it is hearsay.
7
my ruling.
8
9
MS. BEATTIE:
But I think you
I find that this doesn't
One more, Your Honor.
Actually two
2661.
11
MR. SINCLAIR:
12
MS. BEATTIE:
13
THE COURT:
Same issue, Your Honor.
And 2659.
Same type of thing.
I can make the
rulings now.
15
MR. SINCLAIR:
16
THE COURT:
17
MS. BEATTIE:
They're all the same.
Seems to me they're the same.
The second one, and I'll get the
18
Government's exhibit, but it comes under the Rule of
19
Completion because --
20
21
22
23
I made
more, Your Honor.
10
14
If
THE COURT:
You want 2661 under the so-called Rule
of Completion?
MR. SINCLAIR:
2661 is a standalone e-mail, Your
Honor, how can it be the Rule of Completion?
24
MS. BEATTIE:
25
THE COURT:
I'm sorry 2659.
I don't see where 2661 has any place to
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
Colloquy
1
play here.
2
I'm not going to allow it in.
3
2643
It is a document that should be in evidence, so
MS. BEATTIE:
Your Honor, it is an e-mail right in
4
after the important "G Mail" and it goes to the defendant's
5
state of mind.
6
THE COURT:
The question is not whether it goes to
7
the state of mind, the question is whether there is an
8
evidentiary basis to allow it into evidence and we apply the
9
Rule of Completion to some of the chatter.
10
11
MS. BEATTIE:
Rule of Completion given that prior e-mail.
12
13
THE COURT:
I will let 2661 in.
Let me look at
2659 now.
14
15
That could also come in under the
I don't see where this, you know, is
admissible in evidence.
16
MS. BEATTIE:
I will give Your Honor a prior e-mail
17
that's related to this one, I just don't have a GX number on
18
it.
19
This is for the Rule of Completion, Your Honor.
THE COURT:
I don't know what you are referring to.
20
If you want me to to look at it.
21
MS. BEATTIE:
22
23
After lunchtime, I will give you an
additional -MR. SINCLAIR:
This is an e-mail with folks from
24
Bank of America.
I will wait to see the GX number, but I
25
don't recall any exhibits that deal with this issue.
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
Colloquy
1
THE COURT:
2644
Talk about it over lunchtime and we'll
2
try to do as much as we can now and we'll take care of it
3
after lunchtime.
4
Anything else.
5
MS. BEATTIE:
6
MS. KEELEY:
7
THE COURT:
8
I don't believe so.
No, Your Honor.
Thank you.
Any other documents that you want to
bring in.
9
Ms. Brune, do you have other things?
10
MS. BRUNE:
Ms. Beattie speaks for both of us.
11
THE COURT:
This covers the waterfront?
12
MS. KEELEY:
13
THE COURT:
14
Yes, Your Honor.
If you want me to look at what you
think is the predicate for 2659 we'll look at after lunch.
15
What is the other unfinished item?
16
MS. KEELEY:
The first two I handed you asked for
17
the Government to take a second look at after lunch, the
18
marketing book and the e-mail which I don't have the exhibit
19
number in front of me since I handed it up.
20
THE COURT:
21
it.
22
right now.
23
24
25
The marketing book I haven't looked at
It's a big document I have no way of assessing this
What is this?
MS. KEELEY:
The Government has already stipulated
that it is a --
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
Colloquy
1
THE COURT:
It's a Bear Stearns document, and
2
rather than have to flesh out the relevance here I see no
3
harm in having this document in evidence.
4
2645
MR. SINCLAIR:
We're just trying to follow the
5
Court's lead with the concern about the number of documents
6
coming into evidence, Your Honor.
7
THE COURT:
I do appreciate that, but since we have
8
so many this is the last one.
9
into evidence.
10
MS. KEELEY:
We'll take 617 and allow it
One other Your Honor the second
11
document you handed up to you which is an e-mail which is
12
under the Rule of Completeness for GX-2.
13
THE COURT:
14
MS. KEELEY:
15
MS. BEATTIE:
16
THE COURT:
17
MS. KEELEY:
Which one is this?
This is the one I handed up with GX-2.
Isn't that 1828?
I think I ruled on all the others.
With the exception of the e-mail that
18
I handed up to Your Honor which was attached to GX-2 because
19
it's actually a Rule of Completeness with respect to GX-2.
20
THE COURT:
21
MS. KEELEY:
22
I'm trying to find where that is.
I apologize but if I can approach,
Your Honor.
23
COURTROOM DEPUTY:
24
THE COURT:
25
I'll get it.
I have 1828 we rule object that
already.
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
Colloquy
1
2
3
4
That's the one you're talking with 1828,
right?
MS. KEELEY:
It could be, Your Honor.
I,
unfortunately, gave my only copy up to the Court.
5
MR. SINCLAIR:
6
MS. KEELEY:
7
2646
This is 1828.
Yes, Your Honor, 1828.
And GX-2 is a document where Mr. Tannin
8
introduced by the Government -- where Mr. Tannin is
9
communicating with Mr. Cioffi concerning his bonus.
10
11
Defendant's Exhibit 1828 actually talks about -THE COURT:
There are two, Mr. Sinclair.
12
counsel's position.
13
it should be excluded necessarily.
14
be the same state of mind types of concerns.
15
That's
I have no, you know, thoughts about why
MR. SINCLAIR:
It doesn't seem to be to
This is an e-mail between
16
non-defendants someone named Mailine Paleika who I don't even
17
know who that is.
18
at this trial previously.
19
20
21
Certainly, her name has not been mentioned
THE COURT:
That's true.
These are just
third-party people.
MS. KEELEY:
They are, Your Honor.
They are Bear
22
Stearns employees, though.
The Government has called a Bear
23
Stearns, I shouldn't say "a Bear Stearns," they called a
24
J.P. Morgan employee who testified about compensation who was
25
not able to testify as to BSAM issues.
We are simply trying
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
Colloquy
1
to avoid calling a Bear Stearns custodian.
2
THE COURT:
3
MR. SINCLAIR:
4
5
6
2647
About that I will allow that.
Was it the issue of completeness?
What the Bear Stearns employee testified to
was the actual salaries and what Government Exhibit 2 -THE COURT:
I have been trying to avoid calling
7
this person.
8
to call one, that's what I think they're trying to do here to
9
short-cut this.
10
11
12
If you feel it's not possible to avoid having
It will be in evidence.
MR. SINCLAIR:
We would like to see what the
relevance is.
THE COURT:
You have to call this person, it's not
13
going to be in evidence.
14
lunch time?
15
MS. BEATTIE:
16
THE COURT:
17
MS. BEATTIE:
18
19
20
One thing left to deal with after
Yes, Your Honor.
Tell me what that is again.
I guess just on this document it does
go directly to GX-2 which was put into evidence.
THE COURT:
I made my ruling.
What's the last one?
Maybe I can make my ruling on that as well.
21
MS. KEELEY:
22
THE COURT:
I will find you the document.
Do you want to wait until 2 o'clock to
23
take that up with me?
24
to be dealing with when we return at 2 o'clock.
25
MS. BEATTIE:
That's the last thing that we're going
That's fine.
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
Colloquy
1
THE COURT:
2648
In the meantime, be prepared to
2
identify the documents that we are allowing in evidence when
3
the jury comes back and I will call upon counsel to do that,
4
okay?
5
Now, moving forward, there's a very real
6
possibility that we will not need the jurors after 2 o'clock
7
and that will depend upon what defense counsel's choices are.
8
But if that be the choice then we will send them home today
9
and my next question is we will use the rest of the afternoon
10
to fine tune the charge.
11
discuss and we will be able to have a good opportunity to do
12
that without unnecessary pressure.
13
We have interesting things to
So that would mean that we would be in the
14
position to have summations tomorrow.
15
made a request that we put that over to Thursday since
16
there's a lot of preparation to do.
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Mr. Butswinkas has
What's the Government's position?
Would you
be prepared to sum up?
MR. MCGOVERN:
I should ask the person who is going
to do the summation.
MS. JAROSLAW:
If it's court's wish for all parties
to go forward.
THE COURT:
Who is going to do the summations for
the Government?
MS. JAROSLAW:
I will, Your Honor.
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
Colloquy
1
THE COURT:
2
MS. JAROSLAW:
3
THE COURT:
8
9
Look, just take it one step at a time,
How long do you think your summation will be?
It may be academic.
MS. JAROSLAW:
THE COURT:
11
MS. JAROSLAW:
13
14
15
I haven't timed it yet, but I would
estimate in the ballpark of three hours.
10
12
I will if counsel is willing to fool
all right?
6
7
You are prepared to do that?
me on the same day.
4
5
2649
About three hours.
That could change once we time it
and I will inform the Court.
THE COURT:
What I'm thinking about is the whole
week, you see?
So, if we're going to not have the jury return
16
until Thursday, then the summations will last all Thursday,
17
realistically, Friday as well and then we would be faced with
18
giving the charge on Monday.
19
20
That's doable, I guess.
The game plan would be to have the summations
completed by the end of Friday.
21
MR. MCGOVERN:
22
MR. BUTSWINKAS:
23
THE COURT:
24
MR. BUTSWINKAS:
25
MS. JAROSLAW:
I think that's doable.
I agree.
Is that realistic?
Yes, Your Honor.
I think so.
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
Colloquy
1
THE COURT:
2650
I'm not averse to doing that and so the
2
jurors would be told that they do have to work on Friday and
3
I think that would be fine.
4
So, we'll have everything except my charge
5
which would be the first thing on Monday morning.
6
that will work well and that would give us ample opportunity
7
to have the charge done as fast as everyone is capable of
8
doing it you will also have to put together a nice list of
9
all your exhibits I have them but they're all over the place
10
here but do you want the Government to have its exhibit list
11
available to hand to the jurors as well as each of the
12
defendants.
13
14
COURTROOM DEPUTY:
I think
I told them all about that
already.
15
THE COURT:
If you want to see my list, I will give
16
it to you.
17
have and I assume that will not be a problem but pay
18
particular attention to that because, in this type of case,
19
it is easy for something to inadvertently to slip up.
20
I want you to do it in an orderly fashion than I
I expect all of you to cooperate and that will
21
take the pressure off since we will not be sitting on
22
Wednesday so we will go in that direction.
23
MR. BUTSWINKAS:
Thank you.
24
MR. MCGOVERN:
25
(Luncheon recess taken; 1:27 p.m..)
Thank you.
2 o'clock.
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
Colloquy
1
(Continued on the next page.)
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
2651
Charge Conference
1
2652
AFTERNOON SESSION
2
(In open court; 2:00 p.m.)
3
THE COURT:
4
COURTROOM DEPUTY:
You all may be seated.
5
THE COURT:
Everybody is here, I think,
Please be seated.
Okay.
6
right?
7
letter from the Government that you wish to have the
8
opportunity to show the necessary wire fraud nexus.
9
The jury is not here so let's move on.
MR. MCGOVERN:
I got a
Yes, Your Honor.
10
I think we haven't gotten an answer from the
11
defense yet whether they're willing to stipulate to it, but
12
after receiving the Rule 29 motion and looking through the
13
record, we actually obviously ruled Count Seven is an e-mail
14
to foreign commerce which would be clearly within the --
15
16
17
THE COURT:
On its face, the one that goes to
Switzerland.
MR. MCGOVERN:
The other e-mails would have all
18
gone through New Jersey by virtue of the servers being in
19
New Jersey which would be a sufficient nexus under the
20
controlling case law of the Circuit.
21
We have a document in evidence that makes a
22
reference to the Whippany office, but it doesn't do what we
23
think is sufficient and we've asked if they would be willing
24
to stipulate so the fact that the Bear Stearns servers were
25
in New Jersey which would cure the problem which was the
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
Charge Conference
1
essence of the one of the reasons for Rule 29.
2
THE COURT:
3
You have your application.
This wasn't brought out on your direct case,
4
and there are bigger fish to fry and we raised it in the
5
response to the Rule 29 motion.
6
7
So, now you want to have the opportunity
on -- to open the case for that purpose.
8
9
2653
MR. MCGOVERN:
Your Honor, we have a witness here
from Bear Stearns who would testify in two or three questions
10
like that the servers were in New Jersey at this period of
11
time.
12
13
THE COURT:
What would be the phone call, Count
Nine.
14
MR. MCGOVERN:
15
THE COURT:
16
17
18
19
20
We'll let Count Nine out.
Nine is out.
What do you say about six
and seven?
MR. MCGOVERN:
Seven is established because it's
foreign commerce.
THE COURT:
You don't need anything for seven.
You
would need this for what.
21
MR. MCGOVERN:
22
THE COURT:
23
MR. BUTSWINKAS:
Five, six -- five and six.
Mr. Butswinkas, what's your position.
With respect to five and six, they
24
shouldn't be permitted to reopen because it's an element of
25
the offense.
It's not like the cases that talk about
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
Charge Conference
1
jurisdictional nexus this is a little bit different.
2
3
4
2654
THE COURT:
It is a limit.
Nobody is disputing
that.
MR. BUTSWINKAS:
I don't think there are any cases
5
where the Government cites in its letter where there is an
6
element of the criminal offense where the Government was
7
allowed to reopen after case is over.
8
9
THE COURT:
I am troubled by that.
Rule 29 motion, this was brought out.
You have a
The Government rested
10
and now the question is whether or not you should be allowed
11
to reopen to establish an element that arguably you did not
12
establish in response to the Rule 29 motion.
13
MR. MCGOVERN:
Your Honor, we certainly agree with
14
the Court's observation, but we would point that we did cite
15
the Siembida case from the Southern District where this type
16
of situation occurred.
17
18
19
20
THE COURT:
I haven't read that.
Do you have a case which said it's permissible
to allow the Government to reopen?
MR. BUTSWINKAS:
Your Honor, I think that case goes
21
to the issue of jurisdictional nexus, not an element of the
22
criminal offense.
23
24
25
MR. MCGOVERN:
Then United States versus Leslie
from the Second Circuit.
THE COURT:
The Second Circuit allowed it to be
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
Charge Conference
1
reopened.
I have to look at this.
2
MR. MCGOVERN:
3
THE COURT:
4
Tell me what case.
Yes.
The normal rule is that the Government
rests and you're bound by the evidence at that time.
5
6
2655
MR. MCGOVERN:
That's true, Your Honor, and we
certainly understand that.
7
THE COURT:
If there is a case that you have in the
8
Second Circuit, a case that the Court should allow the
9
Government to reopen to establish an element that it did not
10
establish in their direct case, I'll look at it.
11
trying to figure out what the law is and apply it.
12
13
Mr. Sinclair, are you representing that that's
what that case stands for?
14
15
16
I'm just
MR. SINCLAIR:
It's my understanding of the Leslie
case.
THE COURT:
You're telling me, you're representing
17
to me, I haven't read it yet, but I sure will, that the case
18
that the Government can reopen to establish an element that
19
it did not establish on its direct case.
20
21
Are you standing behind that proposition?
MR. SINCLAIR:
Yes.
This is the Second Circuit,
22
Your Honor, that was affirming the district court's decision
23
to reopen the Government's case prior to the time of jury
24
deliberations.
25
after jury deliberations.
There are other cases that say you can do it
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
Charge Conference
1
2
THE COURT:
You have somebody here to testify?
MR. MCGOVERN:
4
THE COURT:
8
Yes.
I will let you do it.
I can always
toss it later on.
6
7
It
won't take long.
3
5
2656
MR. SINCLAIR:
boring.
The nature of the testimony is very
Not prejudicial, Your Honor.
THE COURT:
There's a right way to process it.
9
Then I will consider it separately without the pressure upon
10
me to read those cases and to see whether or not I should or
11
should not do that.
12
MR. BUTSWINKAS:
Your Honor, just one point on, I
13
guess, Count Seven.
14
face of the e-mail to establish beyond a reasonable doubt
15
interstate nexus there.
16
THE COURT:
I don't think it's so clear from the
All it says --
It's okay.
But they're not going to
17
produce any additional testimony about it.
18
rely upon that and it will be an up or down call by me
19
ultimately.
20
MR. MCGOVERN:
They're going to
There's testimony of this other
21
witness would equally apply to that because it will have gone
22
through New Jersey to Switzerland but that's for another day.
23
24
25
THE COURT:
You can bring out whatever you want,
I'm just trying to get the record down correctly.
MR. MCGOVERN:
Thank you.
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
Charge Conference
1
THE COURT:
2
MR. MCGOVERN:
3
THE COURT:
4
MS. EDELSTEIN:
2657
Then we'll deal with how it falls out.
Thank you, Your Honor.
Do you want to.
I want to point out that there is a
5
subsequent Second Circuit case that addresses the
6
jurisdictional interest for intrastate nexus wire fraud in
7
the Second Circuit it's an open case.
8
9
10
11
12
13
THE COURT:
We'll take the testimony and then you
can each submit at the time another letter memoranda and
we'll read the cases and we'll reflect upon it it.
MR. BUTSWINKAS:
Then I think we will conditionally
stipulate to what Mr. McGovern says the testimony will be.
THE COURT:
Okay.
If you want to do that, you can
14
and reduce that to a stipulation.
15
MR. SINCLAIR:
We have the stipulation all drafted.
16
MR. MCGOVERN:
I have one right here.
17
THE COURT:
Then we'll deal with that.
18
going to prejudice anybody here.
19
dealing with that problem.
20
MR. MCGOVERN:
21
THE COURT:
It's not
I can't possibly imagine
Thank you.
We'll bring the jurors back and we'll
22
get them on their way.
23
are prepared to put into evidence what we spoke about.
24
MS. BEATTIE:
25
issue on the document.
Are you prepared to the defendants
Yes.
On the documents.
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
The open
Charge Conference
1
THE COURT:
2
MS. BEATTIE:
3
What is this issue?
Remember I said I'd come back to you
with a document that goes --
4
5
THE COURT:
No, no.
I thought you made that ruling
positive.
6
MS. BEATTIE:
7
THE COURT:
8
MS. BEATTIE:
9
THE COURT:
10
2658
2659.
What.
Document 2659, Defendant's Exhibit.
I thought I said that that was going to
be okay.
11
MS. BEATTIE:
I said I'd come back to you with a
12
Government Exhibit to which it's related and which it offers
13
conclusions.
14
THE COURT:
15
MS. BEATTIE:
16
THE COURT:
17
MS. BEATTIE:
18
This is from Cioffi and Tannin.
Yes, and others.
What is the issue?
The issue is the Bank of America deal
and when it's going to close.
19
THE COURT:
Look, I will allow this in.
20
it along.
21
jury or you will explain that them to what it is.
22
23
24
25
Let's move
2659 and the other one you will read that it the
(Defendant's Exhibits 2659 and 2661 were marked in
evidence as of this date.)
MS. BEATTIE:
Your Honor, with all due respect, I
would like to take another run at one of the documents.
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
Charge Conference
1
I think the Government's objection --
2
THE COURT:
3
MR. SINCLAIR:
4
2659
Which one.
This is the e-mail that's not
between any defendant.
5
THE COURT:
6
MS. BEATTIE:
An e-mail between third-parties?
Yes.
And the reason it goes to
7
compensation, and Mr. Sinclair objected on the grounds of
8
relevancy, after the Government has put in witnesses and
9
documents all about compensation.
10
11
MR. SINCLAIR:
The objection was hearsay, Your
Honor.
12
THE COURT:
13
MS. BEATTIE:
14
No.
The objection was hearsay.
Initially.
And then you came back
with relevancy.
15
THE COURT:
I will stick to my ruling.
16
MR. SINCLAIR:
17
THE COURT:
Thank you.
Can't win them all.
I think everyone
18
would agree that Judge block was correct 99.9 percent of the
19
times.
20
21
22
MR. SINCLAIR:
We may not have a stipulation, I
guess.
THE COURT:
Are we squared away with that
23
conditional stipulation or do you need some more time?
24
take a second, we want to move it along.
25
Ms. Beattie are we okay with this.
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
Just
Charge Conference
1
MS. BRUNE:
2
MR. BUTSWINKAS:
3
I believe so.
I haven't seen it if that's what
Mr. McGovern says.
4
THE COURT:
5
MR. SINCLAIR:
6
2660
That's a joint stipulation.
Take a look at it.
I don't want
them to agree it.
7
MS. KEELEY:
8
comfortable with it.
9
THE COURT:
I reviewed it, Your Honor, we're
Do you want to read that to the jury?
10
MR. MCGOVERN:
11
THE COURT:
12
COURTROOM DEPUTY:
13
(Jury enters courtroom at 2:13 p.m.)
14
COURTROOM DEPUTY:
15
THE COURT:
16
We can read it or offer it.
You can read it.
All rides.
You all may be seated.
Okay.
So, I hope you had a pleasant lunch.
I have
17
had the pleasure of seeing Alternate No. 1.
18
but we happened to be in the same restaurant.
19
good alternate, he's all by himself which means he's
20
listening to my advice not to talk to anybody about the case.
21
We didn't speak
He's a very
We have some finishing touches here first to
22
deal with.
23
these various documents that the defense wanted to put in
24
evidence.
25
During the break, the lunch break, we reviewed
I allowed some and disallowed others, and at
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
Charge Conference
2661
1
this time we call upon Mr. Butswinkas to put into evidence
2
what we agreed I would allow in evidence for the defendants.
3
4
MR. BUTSWINKAS:
Exhibit 617.
5
THE COURT:
6
MR. BUTSWINKAS:
7
THE COURT:
8
This is going to be defendant Cioffi's.
I sort of had them marked Cioffi and
MR. BUTSWINKAS:
10
THE COURT:
applies to both, right.
It's job that it
And 617.
MR. BUTSWINKAS:
13
THE COURT:
Yes, Your Honor.
Identify it for if you want the jurors
to hear it either way it's up to you.
15
MR. BUTSWINKAS:
16
THE COURT:
17
MR. BUTSWINKAS:
18
Cioffi 617.
Just one second.
12
14
Just defendants'.
Tannin.
9
11
Yes, Your Honor it's Defendant's
We will use it on our closing.
That's an e-mail.
Yes.
Your Honor, no, it's the
marketing.
19
THE COURT:
20
MR. BUTSWINKAS:
21
THE COURT:
22
(Defendant's Exhibit 617 was marked in evidence as
23
It's the marketing document.
Yes.
Okay.
of this date.)
24
THE COURT:
Go ahead.
25
MR. BUTSWINKAS:
Next.
Then Exhibit 1960.
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
Charge Conference
1
2
THE COURT:
1960, okay.
And characterize that for
me.
3
MR. BUTSWINKAS:
4
THE COURT:
5
2662
That's an e-mail.
That's an e-mail.
Those were the two,
right?
6
MR. BUTSWINKAS:
7
(Defendant's Exhibit 1960 was marked in evidence as
8
Yes, Your Honor.
of this date.)
9
THE COURT:
Okay.
And there's nothing else that
10
the defendants wish to put into evidence of a documentary
11
nature.
12
We covered all of that?
13
MR. BUTSWINKAS:
14
THE COURT:
That's correct.
The other thing is that the parties
15
have entered into a stipulation which.
16
that and Ms. Beattie is going to read it now.
17
18
19
20
MS. BEATTIE:
You are going to hear
No, Your Honor just two additional
documents that you allowed.
THE COURT:
I'm sorry, did I cut you short?
These
are documents for Tannin.
21
MS. BEATTIE:
22
THE COURT:
23
MS. KEELEY:
24
THE COURT:
25
MS. BEATTIE:
For Tannin, yes.
I'm sorry.
Go ahead let me have them.
Defendant's Exhibit 2661.
2661.
And Defendant's Exhibit 2659.
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
Charge Conference
1
2
THE COURT:
2659.
Just remind me again are those
e-mails.
3
MS. BEATTIE:
4
THE COURT:
5
2663
Those are both e-mails.
Right.
I remember that.
Anything
else?
6
MS. BEATTIE:
7
(Defendant's Exhibits 2659 and 2661 were marked in
8
9
10
evidence as of this date.)
THE COURT:
Then we have this one other piece of business
to attend to.
13
14
We have all the documents into evidence
that will be placed into evidence now.
11
12
Fortunately, no.
There's another stipulation, Mr. McGovern.
MR. MCGOVERN:
There's a joint stipulation between
15
the parties, Your Honor, I think it will pretty much be heard
16
at sidebar.
17
THE COURT:
18
MR. MCGOVERN:
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Something to discuss yet about this.
I think she has an objection reading
it before the jury.
MS. BRUNE:
I think it's appropriately addressed at
sidebar if the Court would allow us.
THE COURT:
Do you have any problems with the
stipulation yes or no?
MS. BRUNE:
stipulation.
I would like to address the
I do.
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
Charge Conference
2664
1
THE COURT:
2
MR. SINCLAIR:
3
THE COURT:
Should it be read?
4
MS. BRUNE:
Whether it should be read at this point
5
Is there a problem?
Yes.
in light of Your Honor's ruling.
6
THE COURT:
I will.
7
MR. MCGOVERN:
It's hereby stipulated and agreed by
8
the parties that Bear Stearns e-mail servers, if called upon
9
to testify, Kim DelVecchio, an Associate Engineer at J.P.
10
Morgan Chase, would testify that she was a Vice President at
11
Bear Stearns in 2007 and that she has knowledge of the firm's
12
e-mail exchange servers.
13
She would testify further that during 2007,
14
Bear Stearns e-mail exchange servers and Bear Stearns
15
regulatory retention archiving system was based in Whippany,
16
that's W-h-i-p-p-a-n-y, New Jersey, and that all e-mails sent
17
from New York-based Bear Stearns and Bear Stearns Asset
18
Management employees in the first six months of the year 2007
19
were routed through the servers in Whippany New Jersey.
20
Finally, she reviewed Bear Stearns's records
21
to confirm that the Bear Stearns e-mail accounts assigned to
22
the defendants, Ralph Cioffi and Matthew Tannin were routed
23
through Whippany, New Jersey through all of 2007.
24
25
It's date November 3, 2009, and signed by the
parties.
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
Charge Conference
1
THE COURT:
2
MR. MCGOVERN:
3
THE COURT:
Do we have a number for it?
That's Exhibit 586.
It's missing on the list for Cioffi
4
just for no particular purpose but it's listed as a joint
5
stipulation.
6
7
(Government's Exhibit 659 was received in evidence
as of this date.)
8
THE COURT:
9
MR. BUTSWINKAS:
10
Anything else?
Mr. Cioffi rests and we would ask
to move to closing arguments.
11
MS. BRUNE:
12
13
2665
Likewise, Your Honor.
With that, Mr. Tannin rests and we are looking
forward to closing arguments.
14
THE COURT:
Any rebuttal case.
15
MR. MCGOVERN:
I don't know how much we're looking
16
forward to closing arguments.
17
arguments; we don't have any rebuttal.
18
THE COURT:
We're ready for closing
Members of the jury, what that means is
19
that you heard all of the evidence and the testimony in this
20
case now, and what remains is to listen to the concluding
21
remarks.
22
then to listen to the judge's instructions about the law and
23
then you would be commencing your deliberations.
24
25
Sometimes we call it summations by the parties and
Now things have worked out very well from a
timing point of view.
We're going to give you off the rest
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
Charge Conference
2666
1
of the afternoon so people can go vote, as it turns out, nice
2
and early and I'm going to give you off tomorrow also.
3
Now, there's a real good reason for that, but
4
I can share this with you.
5
all these legal issues down right so that I can
6
intelligently, hopefully, correctly instruct you about the
7
law and this is the time in the course of the trial when we
8
turn our attention to legal matters so you don't have to be
9
here because you should not be listening to legal arguments
10
11
I want to make sure that we have
and there's much to discuss here.
So, you're going to have tomorrow off.
It
12
will also give the parties an opportunity not to be pressured
13
in terms of preparing a concluding remarks.
14
very well for all concerned.
So, it works out
15
Thursday morning at 10 o'clock, you will be
16
here and I know you will be prompt because that's been the
17
way you've been all the time and we're going to hear the
18
Government's concluding remarks at that time.
19
I'm told Ms. Jaroslaw will be delivering the
20
Government's summation.
21
pressure to do it within a very circumscribed period of time.
22
If I feel during the course of summations, I may egg somebody
23
on to try to wrap it up if I feel it is becoming repetitious.
24
25
Nobody will be under any rush or any
I want everybody to be relaxed and everybody
to feel they're not under any pressure.
That means the
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
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2667
jurors as well as the lawyers and the judge, of course.
2
I think that you can anticipate the better
3
part of two days for summations.
4
defendants and the Government does have the right to have a
5
rebuttal summation.
6
After all, we had two
Now, I'll tell you now, though, I mentioned it
7
it briefly, I think, in my preliminary remarks that the
8
purpose of a rebuttal summation is not to repeat the
9
principal summation.
It is exactly what the word sounds
10
like:
To rebut whatever the defendants may have said in
11
their summations and it's not to be anywhere near as lengthy
12
as the principal summation.
13
be repetitious, I am going to instruct the attorney for the
14
Government who will be delivering the rebuttal, I think it's
15
Mr. McGovern, sound like a second summation.
16
that to you as a cautionary tale to the Government as well so
17
he understands that full well.
18
And if I feel that it's going to
So, I'm saying
I can't tell you how long the rebuttal will
19
be, but it's not going to be more than 45 minutes or an hour
20
tops, I suspect maybe a little less that that.
21
that Ms. Jaroslaw will be delivering the summation for the
22
Government and that will take three or four hours.
23
just mention this to you so you have a general understanding
24
of what hopefully we will be able to accomplish the rest of
25
this week.
I am told
Also, I
And if that be the case, that means that the
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
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1
defendants will start their summations Thursday afternoon as
2
well.
3
4
I suspect that Mr. Butswinkas will be going
first.
5
MR. BUTSWINKAS:
6
THE COURT:
Yes, Your Honor.
All right.
And then, of course, we're
7
going to be lapping over, undoubtedly, into Friday with
8
Mr. Tannin and maybe something left with Mr. Butswinkas, it
9
all depends on how things unfold, and then we will have the
10
rebuttal by Mr. McGovern on Friday.
11
The game plan I'm sure this is only structure
12
that I'm establishing here is that we will be finished by
13
Friday at the end of the day.
14
into Monday.
15
We don't want it to lap over
So, I'm not going to allow the rebuttal to
16
happen on Monday morning.
17
have anything before us by the end of Friday and then we'll
18
have the rest of the weekend, hopefully, and then on Monday
19
morning I will firstly instruct you as to the law.
20
take about an hour and a half roughly and then you will
21
commence your deliberations.
22
It's best that we all are going to
It may
I have instructed the lawyers to have at the
23
ready a compendium of all the exhibits you're not going to
24
have all the exhibits sent into the jury room you will have a
25
list of they will all and you can call them for them if and
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
Charge Conference
1
when you choose to see a particular exhibit you will that
2
have before you.
3
2669
Then the other instructions I'm going to be
4
giving I think will pretty much guide you in terms of how you
5
will go about your deliberations.
6
right now that the instructions will be basically in three
7
parts.
I will just can tell you
8
The first part I will be talking about some
9
principles of law that apply in most cases I will tell you
10
about the burden of proof, the presumption of innocence,
11
reasonable doubt, how to size up the credibility of
12
witnesses, and those the roles once again of the jurors as
13
fact finders and the Court's role as being in charge of the
14
law.
15
you in my preliminary instructions.
You will hear that some of this I already mentioned to
16
Then the second part of my charge is going to
17
explain to you the law in respect to these charges and you
18
will hear about conspiracy, you'll hear about the securities
19
fraud charges.
20
and there may be some wire fraud charges which, you know, we
21
may be talking about as well but you'll hear about all of
22
that and that will explain the elements of these various
23
crimes that have been charged and then the last part of my
24
charge will direct you to how you're going to handle your
25
deliberations.
You'll hear about the insider trading charge
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
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2670
Now, it's important that everyone speaks to
2
each other, listens to each other, be civilized and that you
3
need to reason a unanimous verdict on each and every one of
4
these charges up or down.
5
We'll go through the verdict sheet with you so
6
to explain it all to you and I'm even going to give you a
7
copy of the charge.
8
9
I'll have it all written down.
Now, the law requires me to deliver all of
this it's not that you just get a written document and then
10
go through it all, so the written charge is going to be a
11
guide because I have a tendency to ad lib a lot and what I
12
say orally is going to be the real charge.
13
having it vary substantively with what will be down on the
14
written page and the written page will be a guide for you and
15
I will go through that as well.
16
deliberations and then I turn the proceedings over to you and
17
you'll be telling me whatever you warrant me to consider.
18
I don't plan on
And then you will start your
If you want to hear any readback or have some
19
of the testimony brought back to your attention you'll be
20
able to do.
21
testimony and may even give you portions for you to look at
22
in the jury room if that is what you want and it depends on
23
what you are looking for, if anything.
24
some of the exhibits as you want them; they will be brought
25
in to you.
Our court reporters will have copies all the
You will have all or
And if there's any confusion you have about the
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
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1
law after I explain it to you you can come back and ask for
2
clarifications and you tell me how long it takes for you to
3
complete your deliberations.
4
The important thing is that you'll be starting
5
on Monday, if all things go according to plans, and you'll
6
take as long or as little as the time you need in order to
7
fully and properly discharge your responsibilities to fully
8
and fairly try the issues without fear or favor, you remember
9
your oath, you take as long as you need to do that.
10
It's important that you don't have any
11
personal plans that you make for next week that may
12
psychologically interfere with your responsibility to do the
13
right job as jurors in terms of your full and fair
14
deliberation in the case.
15
I think you understand.
Hopefully, that gives you all a good road map
16
of what you can expect and I will tell you that I wasn't
17
going to make a commitment that you will be off this Friday
18
because I wanted to keep flexible to see how things unfold
19
the and it works perfectly to have the summations in before
20
the weekend break.
21
So, I gave you Friday we will only have part
22
of the summations and that is the right way for me to manage
23
the trial.
24
going to be off, but you will be off tomorrow.
25
This Friday we will all be working.
You are not
So, I sound like a broken record but, of
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
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1
course, it's ever more important now that you've heard
2
everything.
3
curious to check out anything.
4
Internet and don't talk to anybody about what you think
5
about, what you think about that.
6
yourself, keep your mind open, so to speak.
Once the bell
7
rings then you can start your deliberations.
You can all
8
talk, all 12 of you collectively.
9
jury deliberations:
You have all the evidence that you may be
Of course, don't look at the
Just keep your thoughts to
That's the beauty of the
12 good citizens deliberate and listen
10
to each other altogether and hear each other out in terms of
11
the court and jury to do this awesome responsibility that you
12
have.
13
14
Get a good rest tomorrow.
See you Thursday
morning at 10 o'clock.
15
COURTROOM DEPUTY:
All rise.
16
(Jury exits courtroom at 2:28 p.m.)
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
Charge Conference
1
(In open court.)
2
THE COURT:
All right.
2673
Now, what I'd like to do is
3
just go through the various proposed charges that you've
4
given to me and I guess this will qualify as a continuation
5
of the charging conference.
6
We already had spoken a lot about some of
7
these issues.
8
about them in preparation for the charge.
9
Now, just bear with me.
10
11
Now is the time we're going to speak more
MS. KEELEY:
Your Honor, two quick things.
First
if we could renew our --
12
THE COURT:
Just one second.
I'm looking for my
13
laundry list here and for some reason I have -- okay, go
14
ahead.
15
16
MR. BUTSWINKAS:
We want to make sure we renew our
Rule 29 motion.
17
THE COURT:
18
MS. KEELEY:
That's right.
We incorporate by reference the
19
memorandum we filed in support of our original Rule 29
20
motion.
21
22
23
24
25
THE COURT:
All right.
And I'm going to reserve.
Anything else we have to deal with before we
talk about the charge again?
MS. BRUNE:
Yes, Your Honor.
Mr. Tannin likewise
renews his Rule 29.
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
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THE COURT:
2
understood that it goes along.
3
4
MS. KEELEY:
I haven't ignored that.
sure the record is clear on all the grounds.
THE COURT:
6
MS. KEELEY:
7
MR. BUTSWINKAS:
11
12
13
The Court's decision is reserved.
I've said what I now need to say.
Can our clients be excused during
the charging conference?
9
10
It's
It's so important that I want to make
5
8
2674
THE COURT:
It's up to them; it's up to you.
It's
MS. BRUNE:
I'd likewise like to be excused and
fine.
have my partner, Laurie Edelstein, to the charge conference.
THE COURT:
Let's reconvene at 2:45 and we'll go
14
through our laundry list and make sure we don't inadvertently
15
omit anything.
16
MR. BUTSWINKAS:
17
MS. KEELEY:
18
(Defendants excused. )
19
(Recess taken.)
20
(In open court; 2:59 p.m.)
21
THE COURT:
22
Thank you, Your Honor.
Thank you, Your Honor.
All right.
Let's go on the record.
Here's what I've identified as matters which
23
we should focus if our attention on in the charging
24
conference.
25
The first, defendant Cioffi wants a limiting
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
Charge Conference
1
instruction on the UC Bank situation.
2
I've looked at it, it's in Proposed Jury
3
Instruction No. 1.
4
problems with it.
5
going to accept it as drafted.
6
7
It's a limiting instruction, I have no
I just want to let you you know that we're
The Government may or may not have some
thoughts about that.
8
9
2675
If you do, let's hear from you now.
MR. MCGOVERN:
I'm looking at it again.
looked at it the other day.
I've
On its face, it's okay.
It's
10
basically a limiting instruction that says they're only
11
allowed --
12
THE COURT:
It's on the issue of motive, that's
13
consistent with my rulings.
14
So, we'll put that in.
15
It's perfectly drafted to me.
So, we've taken care of that.
I next have a request from Tannin about
16
wanting some instruction concerning victim bias.
17
frankly understand what they're concerned about here.
18
MS. EDELSTEIN:
I don't
Your Honor, I believe that you've
19
addressed our concerns in your preliminary instructions that
20
you've drafted.
21
THE COURT:
We talked about that there's not going
22
to be bias one way or the other so we don't have to put that
23
in.
24
Now, when we deal with the securities fraud
25
charge, what we want to really spend a little time talking
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
Charge Conference
2676
1
about the request that the defendants have made that they
2
want the charge to say that continuing to hold the security
3
does not qualify as, "In connection with the purchase or sale
4
of securities."
5
862.
6
fraud in connection with a purchase or sale of securities is
7
not satisfied by an allegation that it was produced
8
fraudulently not to sell their securities."
9
And they quote from Abrahamson, 568 F.2d,
This language which is in Abrahamson, "A requirement of
That's a faithful quote from Abrahamson which
10
is a civil case.
I don't have any response from the
11
Government, but do the defendants still want that charge?
12
MR. WIEGMANN:
13
THE COURT:
Yes, Your Honor.
Does the Government think it's entitled
14
to that charge?
It goes a long way to me granting the
15
Rule 29 motion.
All of the Government's cases here deals
16
with statements that were made to induce investors to stay
17
the course and not to sell the securities or not to redeem
18
their securities.
19
20
What does the Government say about Abrahamson?
MR. SINCLAIR:
In the first instance, there is
21
evidence in the record that people did purchase securities
22
after having spoken with the defendants.
23
24
25
THE COURT:
Well, do you think that the defendants
are entitled to that charge?
MR. SINCLAIR:
No, Your Honor.
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
Charge Conference
1
THE COURT:
2
MR. SINCLAIR:
2677
We have to structure the charge.
I think the law is very clear in the
3
statute that the standard is and under the regulations, the
4
relevant regulations, that it's to buy, sell, or hold
5
securities.
6
7
8
9
10
11
THE COURT:
That's what the statute says.
How do
you then address Abrahamson?
MR. SINCLAIR:
Your Honor, I don't know what the
specific concerns were in the civil case, Abrahamson, and the
statute certainly any case law to the contrary.
THE COURT:
You can't be that glib about it.
We
12
have a Second Circuit indication albeit in the context of a
13
civil 10B and 10B-5 case that says the following:
14
plaintiffs argue that they are entitled to recover under
15
Section 10B and Rule 10B-5 because they were fraudulently
16
induced not to sell their partnership interests."
17
"The
I guess the parallel here would be that the
18
defendant, that the investors were fraudulently induced not
19
to sell or redeem their hedge fund.
20
Continuing in Abrahamson they say that they
21
would have withdrawn from the firm in 1968 if defendants had
22
not misrepresented the true nature of the firm's investments
23
at that time.
24
25
The short answer is could this branch of
plaintiff's argument is that the requirement of fraud in
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
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1
connection with the purchase or sale of a security is not
2
satisfied by an allegation that plaintiffs were induced
3
fraudulently not to sell their securities.
4
Supreme Court case Blue Chip Stamps.
5
this opportunity today to have a full dialogue on the issue.
6
7
MR. SINCLAIR:
10
11
I'm just trying to use
My initial response to that, Your
Honor, is two-fold.
8
9
They cite a
One, it sounds like they're dealing with
specific securities in the Abrahamson case that may have been
charged in that complaint in that particular case.
THE COURT:
No.
But the concept here that we're
12
talking about is the fraudulent inducement to sell
13
securities.
14
it's a hedge fund security.
15
have put forward here is that the investors were fraudulently
16
induced by these various misrepresentations not to redeem.
17
Whether it's a partnership interest or whether
MR. MCGOVERN:
And certainly, a lot of what you
Well, Your Honor, it's actually --
18
Abrahamson, I haven't even looked at it, and we would like
19
the opportunity to look at it.
20
THE COURT:
21
MR. MCGOVERN:
We have the luxury of time.
It's a civil case, it's touching
22
upon the same issues we're talking about, reliance and
23
inducement, and those types issues used as a standard for
24
criminal cases in the Circuit is that all it has to do is
25
touch upon the sale.
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
Charge Conference
1
THE COURT:
2679
Now, we'll turn to the defense team,
2
both experienced appellate counsel here advising to address
3
the legal issue.
4
Abrahamson is a civil case, why should it
5
apply in the context of a criminal securities fraud
6
violation.
7
MR. WIEGMANN:
It's a civil case, Your Honor, but
8
the language of Section 10B and 10B-5 doesn't change.
9
is a civil case to a criminal case in connection with a
10
purchase or sale, it does not mention anywhere in the
11
statute?
12
THE COURT:
13
MR. WIEGMANN:
14
THE COURT:
15
MR. WIEGMANN:
16
MS. EDELSTEIN:
17
THE COURT:
This
And that's your argument.
Absolutely.
What are your names again?
Hack Wiegmann.
Laurie Edelstein.
You want to echo that the statute and
18
Rule 10B-5 says purchase or hold or sale or hold a security.
19
It does not, in fact, state that.
20
We do have differences between the criminal
21
law and the civil law.
22
the issue of whether there has to be actual reliance, that is
23
a civil concept but it's not embraced in the criminal law.
24
It's all embodied in the concept of materiality.
25
For example, when we discuss again
So, there is a difference right now between
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Official Court Reporter
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1
civil and criminal.
2
pretty comfortable with that because the issue of materiality
3
basically subsumes reliance, I guess, in the criminal
4
context.
5
6
7
You may not agree with that, but I'm
But you say that it needs to be actual
reliance.
MR. WIEGMANN:
Respecting Your Honor's decision on
8
that, putting aside the reliance issue, there still has to be
9
a connection with or sale nexus.
10
THE COURT:
In connection with reliance, while
11
we're talking about reliance, we read that some
12
interesting -- I don't believe that stands for the
13
proposition that you want to to stand for.
14
15
16
MR. WIEGMANN:
I understand your ruling on that,
Your Honor.
THE COURT:
I'm not going to charge actual
17
reliance, I just want to explain that to you.
18
course, you can argue that in the Circuit court.
19
that if there is a connection it will be a 95-page decision
20
from Judge Raggi.
21
MR. WIEGMANN:
23
THE COURT:
25
I'm sure
You made your record --
22
24
And, of
Thank you, Your Honor.
-- we need not dwell on that.
It's
going to be a materiality charge.
Getting back to this language that we have in
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1
Abrahamson, let me call the defense team's attention not only
2
to Blue Chip Stamps which reinforces that same proposition
3
and other cases out there that refer to that but the Supreme
4
Court in United States versus Naftalin, N-a-f-t-a-l-i-n, in
5
1979.
That's 441 U.S. 768.
6
In Footnote Six, it says that, "This case
7
involves a criminal prosecution," I'm not going to go into
8
exactly what this case is about, suffice it to say it is a
9
criminal case.
"The decision Blue Chip Stamps versus Manor
10
Drug Stores," which is the case that's cited in Abrahamson,
11
"which is limited to purchases or sellers the class of
12
plaintiffs who may have private implied causes of action
13
under the Securities and Exchange Commission Rule 10B-5 is,
14
therefore, inapplicable."
15
So, you may want to take a look at that and
16
the Supreme Court, in turn, cites SEC versus National
17
Securities, Inc., and the citation there is at Footnote Nine
18
at 393 U.S., 467.
19
All right, so this is a work in progress.
20
My instincts tell me that Abrahamson is
21
limited to a civil scenario, but the Government will have an
22
opportunity to respond to this and I encourage you to do so
23
because, obviously, the defendants are going to raise that in
24
the Circuit Court of Appeals.
25
You might as well address it, it's in front of
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
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1
Judge Block now.
2
prepare.
3
for the record.
4
with, if the jury convicts, that I can deal with in the
5
context of a Rule 29 motion which I've reserved on, so be it.
6
I just want to make sure the charge is down right now, that's
7
what we're focusing on.
8
9
It does deal with the charge that I have to
What I'm concerned about is getting the charge down
If there is any issues of law to be dealt
MS. EDELSTEIN:
I'm
familiar with the Naftalin decision.
10
THE COURT:
11
MS. EDELSTEIN:
12
THE COURT:
13
If I can speak to that?
You didn't cite it.
That's because --
Is there any reason why you didn't?
Tell me about it.
14
MS. EDELSTEIN:
The proposition that's cited in
15
that Footnote is for the fact that the Government itself does
16
not have to be a purchaser or seller of a security at issue
17
here.
18
I don't believe there's been any contention to that.
In all of the case law, I don't believe
19
there's any distinction between a civil and criminal context
20
and whether or not.
21
connection with the security.
22
distinction between civil and criminal context.
23
THE COURT:
You have to have a purchase or sale in
I've seen no case in terms of
You're telling me that it can't support
24
a criminal prosecution for security fraud where you have as
25
in this case, let's say, hypothetically that there are
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1
absolute fraudulent misrepresentations or misrepresentations
2
of material facts that you want to come to me and you want to
3
sell your hedge fund securities, okay?
4
don't sell them because I'm telling you right now that
5
they're wonderful and I'm going to invest $3 million of my
6
own funds that I have saved over the years as a federal court
7
judge that I put into the put bank and I don't do it that is
8
criminal activity?
9
10
And I say, Please
That's your position?
MS. EDELSTEIN:
Yes.
It's right out of the
statute, the fact that you need a purchase or sale.
11
Now, it doesn't have to be the Government that
12
is the purchaser or seller here which is what the point of
13
the footnote in the Naftalin case is.
14
15
THE COURT:
actually was a redemption.
16
17
There has to be proof that there
MS. EDELSTEIN:
purchase.
18
THE COURT:
19
MS. EDELSTEIN:
20
THE COURT:
21
MS. EDELSTEIN:
22
THE COURT:
23
There has to be proof of a
Or redemption would satisfy that.
Yes.
That's a sale.
Based on misrepresentation.
Wait a second.
So, that if there is proof that there has
24
actually been a redemption, you would then say that we're not
25
at all to be concerned about Abrahamson because, here, we
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
Charge Conference
1
would actually have the equivalent of a sale, right?
2
3
MS. EDELSTEIN:
6
7
8
9
10
I think there are two prongs,
various elements and we --
4
5
2684
THE COURT:
Answer my question.
Answer my
question.
MS. EDELSTEIN:
If the redemption was based on a
proven misrepresentation.
THE COURT:
That's an issue of fact.
We have, you
know, facts here; I want to know what the law is.
So, if we have a situation where arguing the
11
sufficient evidence you establish that there was a nexus
12
between a representation that was false and an actual
13
redemption, would that satisfy you even under the strictures,
14
so to speak, of Abrahamson, yes or no?
15
MS. EDELSTEIN:
16
THE COURT:
17
MS. EDELSTEIN:
18
Only one at time.
THE COURT:
20
MR. SINCLAIR:
21
THE COURT:
22
MR. SINCLAIR:
23
THE COURT:
25
Yes.
If the redemption was
considered a sale and that's a separate issue.
19
24
Yes.
Do we have a separate issue?
We disagree with the proposition.
I know that you do.
Yes.
Let me ask you whether there are actual
redemptions here.
MR. SINCLAIR:
Yes, there are actual redemptions.
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2685
There are actual subscriptions here.
2
THE COURT:
There were actual redemptions or at
3
least they have put in for redemptions to manifests a sale
4
here.
5
6
MR. SINCLAIR:
Yes.
There's also purchases.
7
Exhibit 71 which is a purchase.
8
THE COURT:
9
Absolutely, Your Honor.
There's also
We're not talking about purchases here.
We're just talking about future sales.
The question is
10
whether I should carve out a charge that sort of reflects
11
Abrahamson and focuses upon the fact that they have to
12
establish here to be satisfied that there were actual
13
misrepresentations that relate to these redemptions.
14
15
MR. SINCLAIR:
I don't think so, Your Honor.
I think that your questions would have
16
crystallized the issue right because the reason why there's a
17
difference between the civil and the criminal context and why
18
maybe, in the civil context, it requires a sale or purchase
19
for the monetary component because that's what people are
20
looking for in civil cases.
21
22
23
THE COURT:
There has to be a way of getting
monetary relief.
MR. SINCLAIR:
In criminal cases, if it's pointed
24
that you were lying to your investors and they just don't do
25
anything about it because they're lulled into a sense of
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
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1
confidence, certainly, that has to be prescribed by the law.
2
3
THE COURT:
I'm going to exhort you to really
seriously address it.
4
MR. SINCLAIR:
5
THE COURT:
We will.
We appreciate that.
You do have in language, and I am just
6
trying to lay out the landscape here.
7
time.
8
9
2686
We have the luxury of
My inclination is that you're right, that I
could shape a charge here to conform to the evidence in this
10
case, so to speak, concerning redemptions.
11
redemptions, I putting in an application for redemptions, you
12
know, or redemption certificate, whatever the right language
13
is, would qualify as a sale.
14
do especially since defense counsel agrees that would be
15
perfectly appropriate.
16
MR. WIEGMANN:
17
THE COURT:
18
19
You have a lot
It's one thing I could possibly
I don't agree with that.
One of the team members agrees, the
other does not.
MR. WIEGMANN:
From our position, Your Honor, there
20
would have to be a purchase in this case because of the
21
fraudulent representation.
22
THE COURT:
23
MR. WIEGMANN:
24
25
A purchase.
There would have to be a purchase,
not a redemption.
THE COURT:
You can argue there's no purchase.
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2687
1
We're not going to change that, we're just going to talk
2
about it here.
3
MR. WIEGMANN:
4
THE COURT:
Holding is not enough.
The allegation they were induced
5
fraudulently to sell their securities, they were induced
6
fraudulently not to purchase securities.
7
8
MR. WIEGMANN:
induced to purchase in connection with the security.
9
THE COURT:
10
11
To purchase and to sell.
MR. WIEGMANN:
Here, Your Honor, there's no
allegations.
12
13
They have to have been fraudulently
THE COURT:
You're saying that to be fraudulently
induced to purchase and sell.
14
MR. WIEGMANN:
A purchase.
A sale is not relevant
15
here because they're not contending anyone was induced or
16
wrongfully induced into redeeming.
17
was wrongfully induced into purchasing or holding, not
18
redeeming.
19
THE COURT:
They're alleging someone
Well, I'm a little confused.
I thought
20
that, you know, there's a lot of evidence here that, you
21
know, they were trying to encourage them not to redeem them.
22
Am I missing something?
23
MR. SINCLAIR:
They were attempting to encourage
24
them not to redeem, that is correct, Your Honor.
25
correct.
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
That's
Charge Conference
1
2
3
That's holding.
MR. WIEGMANN:
THE COURT:
5
MR. SINCLAIR:
8
MR. WIEGMANN:
11
12
They were also encouraged to add
more money.
THE COURT:
10
People
Not to sell?
7
9
Not redeeming is holding.
were encouraged hold.
4
6
2688
Redemption is equivalent to a sale.
Redemption is an actual sale.
They're not contending anyone we defrauded into selling.
It
was lack of sale and we contend that is not enough.
THE COURT:
There has to be a redemption
certificate.
13
MR. WIEGMANN:
All are purchases here.
14
MS. EDELSTEIN:
I think this is confusing.
We're
15
actually in agreement.
16
there is a sale that was in connection with or based on a
17
misrepresentation under the statute, that would be sufficient
18
under the facts here, though, any of the redemptions that
19
took place, even if they were to qualify as sales under the
20
statute, were in spite of or despite any alleged
21
misrepresentations.
22
My statement about the fact that if
They were not, therefore, in connection with
23
the purchase or sale as is required under the law.
24
that's why we're actually saying based on the facts in this
25
case there really is the allegations are not.
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
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So,
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1
THE COURT:
They are not induced to purchase.
2
all the securities were purchased.
3
MR. SINCLAIR:
4
2689
That
They were purchased and there were
additional purchases made after they were lied.
5
THE COURT:
I know the crux that you have here is
6
that these investments were in place and all of this other
7
stuff happened and the thrust of the Government's case, I
8
understand it clearly, is that they said hold and don't sell
9
putting more money in.
You made all sorts of
10
misrepresentations to keep them from redeeming.
11
isn't that what the case is about?
12
MR. SINCLAIR:
13
THE COURT:
14
Yes.
The question is whether that
constitutes a crime under the securities laws and you say no.
15
16
I mean,
MR. SINCLAIR:
We're pretty confident about this,
Your Honor.
17
THE COURT:
That's a real defining part of my
18
charge, you see, because, you know, I'm inclined to agree
19
with the Government.
20
the context of criminal law that people can lie all they want
21
to.
22
my domain, and actually deter people from cashing out their
23
securities.
24
the law here.
25
It just doesn't make intuitive sense in
I'm not saying that's what happened here, that's not in
That's not what my intuition is.
MR. SINCLAIR:
This can't be
We will write a letter this evening.
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
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THE COURT:
You can go into that direction, you
2
know what my thoughts are.
3
what Judge key says and Judge Raggi says.
4
2690
MR. WIEGMANN:
And it will be interesting to see
One other point, Your Honor.
There
5
were lots of other statutes, lots of laws that criminalize
6
holding.
The securities law in 10B does criminalize holding.
7
THE COURT:
8
MR. WIEGMANN:
9
10
All do you is cite Abrahamson.
We will give you more authority,
Your Honor.
THE COURT:
You know what I'm trying to do.
I'm
11
trying to focus everybody's attention and what I think may be
12
points one, two, or three for the Circuit court to see that
13
we get the charge down right because we don't want to have to
14
try this case again so the Government has to be very mindful
15
of that as well.
16
If you think you can live with the language in
17
Abrahamson, that's your judgment call to make.
18
you to make it, that's your position here, and I got to call
19
the shots and make the hard calls, I understand that.
20
all sensitive to the fact that we don't want to have to try
21
the case again.
22
MR. SINCLAIR:
23
THE COURT:
24
25
I'm telling
We are
Of course.
I look forward, sorry to make you work
tonight, but that's what you signed up for.
MR. SINCLAIR:
Of course.
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THE COURT:
2691
We dealt with that, you know my take on
2
the reliance issue.
3
order statement in Schlisser that arguably is an open issue.
4
I think that the materiality subsumes everything and the
5
defense can argue all they want to in terms of trying to tell
6
the jury it can't be material, and I think that reliance
7
factor is absorbed short of actual reliance which I don't
8
think is the criminal law here so you can expect that.
9
I'm not going to go with that summary
Now, we are, in terms of my checklist, and
10
then after I finish you tell me if there is anything that you
11
thought about that I may discuss here.
12
On materiality, we know that we have the issue
13
as to whether I should make a reference to a hedge fund here.
14
My sense is that is not to use the words
15
"hedge fund."
16
investment if these particular funds.
17
fair way to focus it.
18
so I'm going to put that in.
19
Hindsight Clause.
20
hindsight I will embrace that from defendant's proposed
21
charge.
22
23
It's to say whether this might be a reasonable
I think that's the
You're not talking about other funds,
And then the we'll put in
I think that's reasonable based on
MR. SINCLAIR:
Your Honor, I apologize, I just
didn't hear you.
24
THE COURT:
Hindsight clause.
25
MR. SINCLAIR:
Does the Court mean --
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
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THE COURT:
The Hindsight Clause.
2692
Thanks for
2
stopping me because I'm going too fast and I want you to stop
3
me.
4
Then the last part of the materiality charge
5
we'll focus on whether I'm going to talk about gullable
6
buyers or sophisticated investors and I think that the
7
Government is right that I should not let the jury believe
8
that these are sophisticated, you know, investors or that
9
when we talk about reasonable investors, we're talking about
10
those that have particular sophistication, and so there won't
11
be language here about we're not going to be talking about
12
only, well, I won't say it doesn't matter, whether the
13
intended victims were gullable buyers or sophisticated
14
investors.
15
investors in these particular funds.
16
exception.
The standard is, once again, what a reasonable
17
MS. KEELEY:
18
THE COURT:
You have your
(Nodding).
I'm going to go that way.
Because
19
otherwise, the jury can really believe that, you know, that
20
you are to consider the wealth of these people and only the
21
wealth of these people and that would not square with the
22
law.
23
Government.
24
25
So, I have to deal with that in fairness to the
MS. KEELEY:
Just for the record, Your Honor, we
just did want to confirm our exception and also reference the
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1
fact that the securities regulations specifically provide
2
regulations about who can invest in funds like this.
3
THE COURT:
4
MS. KEELEY:
Regulations what?
The securities regulations provide who
5
is permitted to invest in these funds for just this reason as
6
we heard this morning from Professor Hubbard.
7
it is a proxy.
8
9
THE COURT:
If you want to propose something that's
taken from the law that talks about who is permitted to
10
invest in these funds, I'll consider it.
11
that anybody with a lot of money can do it.
12
me to say that, do you?
13
He testified
MS. KEELEY:
What he said was
You don't want
Your Honor, under the securities
14
regulations there are specific qualified investors for funds
15
such as this.
16
but we will submit some instructions to them.
17
In fact, these funds had two qualifications,
THE COURT:
You submit to me some definition on who
18
a qualified investor is.
19
it's going to talk about what?
20
21
MS. KEELEY:
The amount of money?
It is, Your Honor, based on their net
worth and investable assets; correct?
22
THE COURT:
23
MS. KEELEY:
24
THE COURT:
25
I will consider it, but I suspect
Of a qualified investor.
Correct.
That's not inconsistent with what the
Government is saying a qualified investor is.
Can we have
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
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all this money in the world --
2
MS. KEELEY:
3
THE COURT:
4
5
2694
Right.
-- to embrace that.
You you want me to consider something like
that, you can submit it to me.
6
MS. KEELEY:
7
THE COURT:
Thank you, Your Honor.
Be sure my object in charging the jury
8
would be to make sure they're not misled into believing that
9
just because somebody has big bucks that's the standard to be
10
used that's the consent we're talking about.
11
MS. EDELSTEIN:
We take exception to that, Your
12
Honor.
13
proposed the definition of who a reasonable investor in a
14
Hedge Fund like these funds would be and we lay out that it's
15
not just an issue of money here or wealth, that we --
16
In you're Proposed Instruction No. 7, we actually
THE COURT:
17
charge the jury?
18
spoke about.
19
What specifically, do you want me to
That would be in keeping with what we just
MS. EDELSTEIN:
As we stated in our Proposed
20
Instruction No. 7, we said, "You have heard about the funds
21
in this case were not open to ordinary investors, only those
22
investors who had at least $5 million in investments or who
23
owned or managed $25 million in investments."
24
25
THE COURT:
Stop.
You want me to say a reasonable
hedge fund investor is a highly sophisticated investor?
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
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2
MS. EDELSTEIN:
Yes.
2695
Because it's not an issue of
wealth, it is an issue of experience in financial matters.
3
THE COURT:
I am not going to say that, okay?
The
4
jury will decide what a reasonable investor is.
5
your arguments to the jury all you want to.
6
preclude you from doing that, but I think that it would not
7
be correct for me to instruct them that it has to be a highly
8
sophisticated investor.
9
You can make
I'm not going to
I think that based on the testimony that I
10
heard from your expert witness that money is the name of the
11
game here.
12
If any of you folks won the lottery, as Mr. McGovern said,
13
you would be able to invest in these hedge funds there is no
14
question about it.
15
accordingly.
Essentially, that's really what hedge funds are.
So, the charge would be crafted
16
Okay, let's move on to something else.
17
I am going to give the three methods by which
18
fraud can be established.
I asked the Government to opine on
19
A and C in addition to B.
They convinced me it's probably
20
the right thing to do.
21
though, as to which one of these three methods that they pin
22
liability on.
23
24
25
I think the jury has to be unanimous,
MR. SINCLAIR:
That's my understanding of law, Your
Honor.
THE COURT:
They will be charged accordingly.
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2696
1
There's enough here for the Government to argue, and once
2
again, we have the Rule 29 motion that I reserved on so we
3
can flesh it all out in terms of what is sufficient evidence
4
to support this.
5
Whether I should prepare the verdict sheet to
6
require them to identify which of those three they agreed to
7
I'm open to that.
8
9
10
MR. MCGOVERN:
You know what, Your Honor, we'll
look into that in the overnight as well I'm entirely sure in
the case law whether that's necessary or not.
11
12
It may not be a bad idea.
THE COURT:
I think I may have some discretion to
do that.
13
MR. MCGOVERN:
Whatever guidance we can offer.
14
don't want to be in a position where we're agreeing to
15
something right now that we haven't looked at because it
16
might make a difference.
17
18
THE COURT:
Think also tonight about the verdict
sheet.
19
MR. MCGOVERN:
20
THE COURT:
Yes.
There's some value perhaps in
21
separating off those questions to see which of those three
22
they really come to rest on.
23
not be a bad idea so think about that.
24
25
I
All right.
My initial feeling is it may
Let's move on.
Venue here.
issue has been raised throughout the trial.
The
My guess is that
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
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the defendants are entitled to a venue instruction on the
2
securities fraud.
3
4
2697
I think that was left open for them.
MR. SINCLAIR:
The securities and the conspiracy
count.
5
THE COURT:
6
Yes, conspiracy.
So, I think that they're going to get the
7
venue charge on that, all right.
Venue is a tricky thing, is
8
it or is it not an element?
9
to charge it and I always feel that some are conceptually
It it is not yet, it's essential
10
confused by that throughout the years and there's a view of
11
the law that says, "Under certain circumstances when venue is
12
not an element," and if you don't charge it, it's not
13
favorable.
14
how that plays out if at some future time.
15
We're going to charge it here and worried about
MR. MCGOVERN:
Just to be clear, because there is
16
some confusion by preponderance of the evidence, I'm
17
assuming.
18
19
20
THE COURT:
evidence standard.
The venue is the preponderance of the
I think if I recall --
MS. KEELEY:
Your Honor, we acknowledge that that's
21
the Second Circuit law.
22
Supreme Court hasn't ruled on it.
23
THE COURT:
We're preserving the issue since the
I think that whole area is screwy and
24
hasn't been definitively resolved by the Second Circuit.
25
don't think -- we'll save that for a discussion at some sort
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
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2698
of a law-related function.
2
I have a note here that Cioffi wants the
3
good-faith reliance to embrace advice of counsel.
4
inclined to do that.
5
counsel scenario here to justify a charge, so I will just let
6
you know what my thoughts are about that.
7
MS. KEELEY:
8
THE COURT:
9
MS. KEELEY:
I'm not
I don't think we have an advice of
Your Honor.
Yes.
If we may speak to that?
Mr. Quental
10
testified that the PPM was authored by Sidley & Austin [sic].
11
I believe he said both drafted and blessed by Sidley &
12
Austin.
13
14
THE COURT:
You can argue about that I am not going
to charge that specifically.
15
Now let's talk about aiding and abetting and
16
we'll talk about Pinkerton and whether we're going to end by
17
revisiting once again the insider trading issue in terms of
18
whether there's a so-called fiduciary responsibility to make
19
disclosures and things of that nature.
20
But on the aiding and abetting, the Government
21
wants aiding and abetting including the wire fraud charge or
22
can we make it easier for the jury without getting some so
23
confused?
24
25
MR. MCGOVERN:
We have aiding and abetting as to
the substantive counters in the indictment.
I think there's
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a theory upon which --
2
3
THE COURT:
Aiding and abetting you're talking
about the substantive security charges.
4
5
2699
MR. MCGOVERN:
Yes.
Aiding and abetting a
conspiracy.
6
THE COURT:
I will give that to you, but do you
7
also need that for the wire fraud and is there a realistic
8
view of this case where aiding and abetting were
9
determinative in terms of a wire fraud conviction.
10
MR. MCGOVERN:
Well, for instance, if the jury
11
believed that Mr. Cioffi was behind, you know, sending the
12
message out to the investors about whatever the
13
misrepresentation might have been and Mr. Tannin was his
14
mouth piece or Mr. Tannin was the person actually doing it.
15
He would be aiding and abetting Mr. Cioffi.
16
THE COURT:
I think that's correct.
There is a
17
view of this case that would support that I will give it.
18
just want to ask whether -- do you want to speak in
19
opposition to all these things?
20
MS. EDELSTEIN:
21
I
Yes, not all of them.
On this in particular issue, as we stated in
22
our Rule 29 brief, we just don't believe that this is an
23
aiding and abetting case with respect to any of the charges
24
here.
25
THE COURT:
I know you say that but, you know, why
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
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2700
not?
2
MS. EDELSTEIN:
3
THE COURT:
Because --
On the subsequent securities fraud, I
4
give a lot of credit to lawyers who gets up and say we don't
5
oppose everything, we oppose some things, but here's why we
6
oppose these things.
7
lawyering process.
8
9
It lends credibility to, you know, the
MS. EDELSTEIN:
In fact, I stated initially that I
was not objecting to everything.
10
THE COURT:
That's good, aiding and abetting in
11
terms of security fraud.
12
charged.
13
respect to both defendants is so clear cut that they're bound
14
to be convicted on direct evidence and they don't need to be
15
aiding and abetting.
16
Tell me why that should not be
Because the evidence of securities fraud with
MS. EDELSTEIN:
No.
It's because the evidence here
17
and the Government's theory that they were working together
18
and not necessarily proceeding on an aid aiding and abetting
19
theory.
20
THE COURT:
They have the conspiracy charge and an
21
aiding and abetting charge so they can say that there is no
22
conspiracy, that they were working separate, you know, but
23
that one aided and abetted another.
24
MS. EDELSTEIN:
25
THE COURT:
We don't think the facts --
Try to do better when you make an
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objection.
2
MS. EDELSTEIN:
3
THE COURT:
4
5
6
7
8
9
2701
Okay.
You can do better than that.
The Pinkerton.
Now, you wanted to rail
against the Pinkerton charge, I will let you do so.
That's something you have some discretion on.
What do you think?
The Government has asked for a Pinkerton
charge so that for argument's sake, Mr. Tannin is a member of
10
the conspiracy and it's reasonably foreseeable to him that
11
Mr. Cioffi were actually engaged in security fraud that
12
Mr. Tannin can be found substantively guilty.
13
Do you understand that, yes?
14
MS. EDELSTEIN:
15
THE COURT:
16
17
Should I give that charge or not?
MS. EDELSTEIN:
object to the charge.
19
proceeds with it.
THE COURT:
We have thought about it and we
But we understand that Your Honor
It's sort of wearing sort of like a
21
belt and suspenders here I think but it's not an
22
inappropriate charge to give.
23
Pinkerton charge, all right?
24
25
Have
you thought about that?
18
20
Yes.
So, I'll probably give the
So, then let's turn now to this issue that has
caused a lot of discussion and that deals with the issue of
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2702
fiduciary duty.
2
This only deals with Mr. Cioffi.
3
MR. SINCLAIR:
4
THE COURT:
That's correct.
So, we're talking about an insider
5
being one who comes into possession of material,
6
confidential, nonpublic information about a security, et
7
cetera.
8
book.
9
think the issue focuses on confidentiality.
10
And that's the basic charge that's in the charge
Sand talks about confidentiality and nonpublic, so I
Here's what the Government wants me to say
11
about confidentiality.
12
confidence sometimes called a fiduciary relationship can
13
exist in a variety of settings."
14
right?
15
"A relationship of trust and
I guess that's a truism,
Next, a person has a fiduciary duty when the
16
business he transacts or the money or property which he
17
handled is not his own or for his own benefit but for the
18
benefits of another person or entity.
19
Let's see what the defendants say.
This is
20
what nonpublic was, I don't think there's any question about
21
that.
22
MR. WIEGMANN:
Your Honor, we're not sure exactly
23
what the negative nonpublic information is, so I just wanted
24
to state that for the record.
25
view, made clear at all what the negative nonpublic
The Government hasn't, in our
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1
information is.
2
information.
3
nonpublic information that Mr. Cioffi reportedly traded on.
4
5
A hedge fund always has nonpublic
The question here is what's the negative
THE COURT:
What's nonpublic?
I'm sorry what's
your concern?
6
MR. WIEGMANN:
Our concern is we don't know what
7
the negative nonpublic information that Mr. Cioffi reportedly
8
traded on was.
9
testified, always has some nonpublic information.
A hedge fund always, as Professor Hubbard
It doesn't
10
mean that it's neglect of it.
11
nonpublic information that would cause him to presumably
12
engage in insider trading.
13
that --
14
THE COURT:
It would only be negative
So, the Government can argue
The nature of this conflict about the
15
confidentiality.
16
what the defendant puts forward here:
17
18
That's what I was concerned about.
Here's
"At the heart of the fiduciary relationship
lies reliance and de facto control and dominance.
19
A fiduciary relationship arises where one
20
party has the power and opportunity to take advantage of the
21
other because of that other's susceptibility or
22
vulnerability.
23
In order for a fiduciary relationship to
24
exist, the fiduciary must have discretion or the authority
25
and the other party must depend on the fiduciary to serve his
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
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2704
interests.
2
The mere fact that a business relationship
3
arises between two persons does not mean that either owes a
4
fiduciary obligation to the other."
5
I am just sort of ruminating here.
The charge
6
that we have in the standard charge which I gave you simply
7
talks about.
8
9
MR. SINCLAIR:
Line 7.
10
THE COURT:
11
MR. SINCLAIR:
12
Your Honor, I think it's Page 29,
Page 29.
I believe this is what the Court is
looking for.
13
THE COURT:
It just simply talks about the first
14
element and defines an insider as a person who comes into
15
possession of material, confidential, nonpublic information
16
that is a secured by a relationship that involves trust and
17
confidence.
18
That's the standard charge.
The question is whether I should modify that
19
in any respect here?
20
let the parties argue that, you know, about it.
21
correct statement of law.
22
23
I can just give the standard charge and
MR. SINCLAIR:
That's a
What's wrong with just doing that?
Your Honor, we have no objection to
that.
24
THE COURT:
Yes.
25
MR. WIEGMANN:
Your Honor in our view --
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THE COURT:
2
MR. WIEGMANN:
3
THE COURT:
4
MR. WIEGMANN:
5
THE COURT:
6
MR. WIEGMANN:
2705
You think that's wrong -Yes.
-- to charge the jury that way.
It's wrong because it's incomplete.
Tell me what you think it should be.
Our first position is our main
7
position.
Is first there has to be a duty before that's an
8
obligation to disclose.
9
at Page 40 which was to instruct the jury that there is no
And so our initial instruction was
10
fiduciary duty to the individual investors, the duties is to
11
the fund that would be Your Honor.
12
THE COURT:
Now, I ruled on that already.
I am not
13
going to go in that direction so I passed that on.
14
argue that there is no duty at all, they can do whatever they
15
want.
16
going to buy that.
17
You'll
I don't think the Second Circuit, as I recollect, is
MR. WIEGMANN:
The other argument there has to be
18
some duty to disclose.
19
of that duty?
20
individual investors that there is a fiduciary relationship
21
and based on the sophistication of the parties, the fact in a
22
these managers were not --
23
The question is:
What is the source
And if they need to establish that these
THE COURT:
We're talking about confidential.
24
There's nonpublic information here in this case, I'm not
25
concerned about that.
Obviously, if it's public, you know,
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
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then we don't have to worry about this.
2
counsel to argue.
2706
So, that's for the
3
But it's the concept of confidentiality once
4
again and we discussed that yesterday and that's really the
5
heart of what you're saying, I think, that when two comes to
6
these hedge funds, there's no confidentiality aspect to them.
7
MR. WIEGMANN:
I don't think it's about
8
confidentiality, Your Honor, I think it's about a duty and
9
silence in the absence of a duty.
10
THE COURT:
Let me ask you this.
11
to disclose, specifically.
12
omissions, I don't think, are you?
13
MR. SINCLAIR:
14
THE COURT:
There's no duty
You're not relying upon any
Your Honor --
They don't have the duty to disclose
15
and that's not the crux of your case here.
16
something that would be relevant to talk about there were
17
occasions.
18
MR. SINCLAIR:
That would be
They have a duty to speak the truth
19
and to the extent they speak and they make material
20
misstatements that is their duty.
21
When you're speaking in connection with a
22
purchase or sale of a security, and we don't have to go back
23
to that, but when you're speaking in connection with these
24
issues when you say something is misleading.
25
THE COURT:
I agree with that.
I don't think you
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1
have the case where you're relying upon fraudulent omissions
2
here.
3
fraudulent misstatements of material fact.
Your case is really very focused.
4
MR. SINCLAIR:
5
THE COURT:
These are
Yes, absolutely.
So, I can satisfy the defendants'
6
concern by saying we're not dealing with fraudulent omissions
7
here.
8
There's no duty that they have to make any
9
particular disclosure, this case is really all about what
10
they did say.
11
and that may satisfy the defendants.
12
I think that's really what we're talking about
MR. SINCLAIR:
With respect to the insider trading,
13
Your Honor, an omission fact that Mr. Cioffi didn't tell
14
anyone he was trading his information and under the insider
15
trading law there is a duty to disclose or abstain from
16
trading.
17
So, while perhaps Mr. Cioffi did not have to
18
disclose that the fund were going down and were suffering and
19
were not being able to take advantage of the buying
20
opportunity.
21
THE COURT:
Let's focus on that.
Do you think you
22
had a duty to make that disclosure as a matter of criminal
23
law?
24
25
MR. SINCLAIR:
If he was going to trade, yes, or
disclose the information that he was trading Bated on.
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
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1
lad a trade or disclose the information or disclose the trade
2
but not the information it was up to him.
3
THE COURT:
What do you say?
4
MR. WIEGMANN:
In the hedge fund context, we don't
5
believe that's the law, Your Honor.
The omissions part
6
currently in the main securities fraud counts, there is an
7
omission inclusion and we've objected to that and for the
8
reason, Your Honor, just stated we think those just come out
9
in the main claims in the insider trading context the private
10
placement memorandum specifically said that he could redeem
11
at any time without notice to investors.
12
deception here and there's no because there's no duty.
13
THE COURT:
14
So, there's no
You can argue that to the jury.
Look, I think the charge is correct you can
15
always flush there out later on you can say that in the
16
context of this case, that, you know, there was no obligation
17
to disclose whatever you have so I think the charge is
18
correct and I am going to go with the standard charge because
19
I think that's boilerplate and that's what I'm going to do.
20
Okay?
21
We'll reflect upon all of that further during
22
the course of the next day or so.
23
anything to me for reconsideration, by all means feel free to
24
do so.
25
If you wanted to submit
Now, is there anything else here that needs to
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be spoken about to satisfy whatever concerns you may have so
2
you can properly prepare for your summations.
3
First, from the Government's perspective.
4
MR. MCGOVERN:
5
THE COURT:
No, Your Honor.
I think we're ready to go mostly
6
because Ms. Jaroslaw is not here and we can say we're ready
7
to go.
8
She's working right now.
9
MR. MCGOVERN:
10
11
THE COURT:
She's doing something.
You can communicate to her what we're
talking about.
12
MR. MCGOVERN:
13
THE COURT:
14
Go ahead.
Anything further from the
defendants?
15
16
I will.
MR. BUTSWINKAS:
We have a number of objections to
the draft charge which was provided to us last night.
17
THE COURT:
The draft charge is perfect but go
18
ahead.
It's perfect in terms of it's just the law that's
19
been charged over and over and over again.
20
21
MS. KEELEY:
would agree in some cases but not based on the facts here.
22
23
24
25
It would be perfect, Your Honor, we
THE COURT:
consider.
Tell me what else you want me to
Let's go.
MS. KEELEY:
To begin with.
With respect to the
conspiracy, the Government in response to the Court's order
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has specifically identified that there were only two alleged
2
co-conspirators in this case.
3
4
The two defendants, Mr. Cioffi and Mr. Tannin.
The draft charge continues to have and others language.
5
THE COURT:
6
MR. SINCLAIR:
7
THE COURT:
8
MS. KEELEY:
9
10
So we'll eliminate that.
That's fine.
That's fine.
I believe that also requires that much
the much conspiracy charge to rephrased to make it clear that
there were only two alleged conspirators.
11
With respect to the Government elected to
12
bring two charges here, one for each hedge fund.
13
Honor will recall, we moved to dismiss one of those charges
14
on multiplicity grounds pretrial the Government opposed that
15
and Your Honor denied our motion.
16
As Your
Given that there are two charges, the jury has
17
to be made clear to the jury that what they have to consider
18
and unanimously agree upon either for Count Two that a
19
High-Grade investor heard an alleged misrepresentation
20
concerning the High-Grade fund and then bought a High-Grade
21
security for Count Three that an Enhanced investor heard a
22
misrepresentation about the Enhanced Fund and was induced to
23
buy a securities in the Enhanced Fund.
24
25
They continue to mesh the two funds as if they
were one.
They have alleged misrepresentations going to a
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1
High-Grade concerning the Enhanced Fund going to a High-Grade
2
investor who purchased a High-Grade security and claims that
3
establishes securities fraud.
4
THE COURT:
We should separate two and three and
5
maybe the draft charge doesn't sufficiently call attention to
6
the jurors that they have to consider them separately.
7
think that's a valid constructive suggestion.
8
telling me that they have to be told that the
9
misrepresentation relates to purchase of each of these
10
11
I
But you're
securities.
MS. KEELEY:
Yes, Your Honor.
Under the
12
Government's theory of this case, it goes back to the holding
13
willing issue.
14
issue, it has to relate to a fund.
15
16
17
Even if the Court overrules us on the holding
THE COURT:
each of the funds.
I want to make it clear that it's about
They are each subject separately.
MS. KEELEY:
They're not each subject to a separate
18
charge but to give an maybe a more simple example in the
19
hedge funds.
20
corporations, you can't say I lied about American Express and
21
you went out and bought Apple and, therefore, you're going to
22
make a securities charge relating to your purchase of Apple.
23
It has to be a lie about Apple because that's the securities
24
you purchased.
25
If you're talking about two different
THE COURT: It has to relate to that particular
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2
2712
charge and that particular fund.
MR. SINCLAIR:
I think we agree with the Court.
I
3
mean counsel is trying to draw some technical distinction.
4
think that the evidence in this case really shows that these
5
two funds are very vial correlated.
6
about one fund may or may not have impact investors.
7
THE COURT:
So misrepresentations
I will give them some cautionary
8
comment about that be careful that you don't commingle the
9
two when you separately consider them.
10
MR. SINCLAIR:
11
THE COURT:
12
13
Thank you.
That you don't take from Peter and pay
Paul, that type of thing.
MS. KEELEY:
I
That's a corrective suggestion.
I would point that both the
14
Government's representations that they opened on the alleged
15
misrepresentation concerning Concord only related to
16
redemptions in the Enhanced Fund and Mr. Cioffi's transfer
17
came out of the Enhanced Fund.
18
THE COURT:
That's a good thought.
I'm going to
19
remind them that they have to consider each of these
20
separately and make sure that they predicate any of the
21
determinations upon commingling, you know, these funds and
22
confusing one with the other type of thing.
23
language to give them, okay.
24
25
MS. KEELEY:
We'll find some
In addition, Your Honor, we object to
the charge for the conscious avoidance.
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2
THE COURT:
There is a conscious avoidance
instruction language in the proposed charge.
3
MS. KEELEY:
4
THE COURT:
5
On Page 19.
It's not my intention to give a
conscious avoidance charge.
6
MS. KEELEY:
7
MR. SINCLAIR:
8
THE COURT:
9
12
Thank you, Your Honor.
2 through 10.
I'm looking at 19.
So, you're objecting to the Line 69.
10
11
2713
MS. KEELEY:
Lines 2 through 10 actually, Your
Honor.
THE COURT:
All of it, yeah.
Yeah, that's a
13
conscious avoidance charge.
14
give that here you can argue whatever you want but I won't
15
give the charge.
16
17
18
Okay.
What else?
MS. KEELEY:
In addition, Your Honor, we would
object to the inclusion of a statutory purpose language.
19
THE COURT:
20
MS. KEELEY:
Where is that?
That is in the first element of the
21
securities fraud charge.
22
where it begins.
23
I indicated I'm not going to
THE COURT:
Fraudulent act, Page 12.
Just one second.
It's
I usually don't
24
really say too much about the history or the reasons for the
25
enactment of a statute.
Let me take a look.
I don't think
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2
2714
there's anything wrong with giving the jury a sense of that.
MS. KEELEY:
The concern, Your Honor, is that the
3
jury believe it can convict based on what purpose the statute
4
is as opposed to the elements of the statute that Your Honor
5
is going to instruct them on.
6
7
8
9
THE COURT:
Usually, I just confine my charge to
the elements of statute.
MR. MCGOVERN:
Your Honor, I don't think that this
actually harms in any way.
It really identifies the issue of
10
how these instruments are treated differently under the law
11
rather than on something else.
12
the charge in the past, I think it actually gives some color
13
to what it is that you're charging them on.
14
15
THE COURT:
I'll rethink it.
MS. KEELEY:
17
other individuals not on trial.
18
THE COURT:
20
I'll think about it.
Anything else?
16
19
Having heard Your Honor give
Yes, Your Honor.
We object to the
We're going to take care of that.
That's just part of the proofreading.
MS. KEELEY:
As well as the instruction.
Not just
21
and others handling, there's an instruction in there titled,
22
"Other individuals not on trial," which we object to.
23
24
25
THE COURT:
Let me see specifically.
This is all
boilerplate stuff.
That's sort of standard stuff you don't want
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2715
that in there.
2
MS. KEELEY:
Again, Your Honor, it goes to the fact
3
that there are only two alleged co-conspirators.
4
testimony other individuals involved in criminal activity.
5
MR. SINCLAIR:
So
The Government would request that
6
that be included given the fact that the defense made such a
7
big deal in opening about Mr. McGarrigal's presence at
8
certain times.
9
10
THE COURT:
There are a lot of
people who seem to be criminally culpable here.
11
MS. KEELEY:
12
THE COURT:
13
I will give that.
We would simply make our objection.
You have your objection.
Anything
else?
14
MS. KEELEY:
We would request that the jury be
15
instructed that materiality is an element of securities
16
fraud.
I believe Your Honor has --
17
THE COURT:
18
MS. KEELEY:
It's in there.
You have materiality in the charge,
19
but it's not specified as one of the elements of secures
20
fraud for the jury where you set forth in the beginning.
21
THE COURT:
Wait a second.
You're telling me that
22
I left out an element when I charged the jury on securities
23
fraud.
24
25
I'm very concerned about that.
MS. KEELEY:
On securities fraud, Page 13 to 14
where you have the elements of the offense, materiality is
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
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not listed.
2
element.
3
4
2716
It's addressed down below as part of the first
THE COURT:
material fact.
Well, we have made statement of
What are you talking about?
5
MS. KEELEY:
6
requires materiality.
7
doesn't set it out as an element separate and apart from the
8
first one there, they're going to think that it evenly
9
relates to Subsection B.
10
THE COURT:
Subsection A and Subsection C also
My concern is that if the Court
How would you talk about materiality
11
when you talk about engaging in an act or practice or course
12
of business about where there's a fraud?
13
that have to do with -- materiality has to deal with
14
statements that are made.
15
are prepared here.
16
about.
I mean, what does
This is exactly the way charges
I don't understand what you're talking
17
MR. SINCLAIR:
18
THE COURT:
19
MS. KEELEY:
This is the standard.
We know this is the standard.
Part of the confusion, Your Honor, may
20
be created by the fact that this case really, Your Honor, has
21
alleged misstatements which must be material and not about as
22
in Sections A and C a device, scheme, or artifice to defraud
23
or act practice --
24
THE COURT:
That's the first charge, that's correct
25
that's exactly what the law is.
To accomplish of any
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1
objective and of course the second element it has knowing and
2
willfully done with the intent to defraud.
3
MS. KEELEY:
We would also request that with
4
respect to the securities fraud charge that the court include
5
the language that we included in our proposed instructions
6
that the misrepresentations must have some direct pertinence
7
to a securities transaction.
8
untrue statements and material fact following an investment
9
in the funds is inadequate.
10
11
12
13
Evidence that defendants made
Likewise, evidence that
investments.
THE COURT:
What's inadequate?
If they made a
material misrepresentation it's inadequate?
MS. KEELEY:
It's inadequate if it's untrue
14
statements material fact following an investment in the funds
15
is inadequate.
16
17
This is the holding issue.
THE COURT:
One second.
That is the holding issue,
we discussed that already.
18
MS. KEELEY:
19
THE COURT:
20
MS. KEELEY:
21
THE COURT:
22
MS. KEELEY:
Yes.
We preserving on that.
What else?
With respect to the second element.
Of securities fraud.
Correct.
And let me try to got a page
23
for you, Your Honor.
As we stated earlier, and it sounds
24
like the Government has now agreed, we think that the
25
omission language should come out of this instruction.
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2
THE COURT:
MS. KEELEY:
4
THE COURT:
5
MS. KEELEY:
7
Tell me specifically what you're
talking about.
3
6
2718
For instance on Page 15.
Fifteen.
In certain places it talks about a
misrepresentation or misleading omission.
THE COURT:
Well, that law is correct.
I mean, you
8
can argue that there are no misleading omissions here.
9
Government wants to argue that there were omissions.
10
MS. KEELEY:
The
We have not, for starters, we have not
11
heard the Government articulate -- in fact, I heard the
12
Government just said in response to Your Honor's question
13
they are not rest on mission.
14
THE COURT:
When taken in tandem with the actual
15
statements that have been made to the investors that that
16
really was triggered, you know, the fact that there was
17
information that they omitted telling the investors in the
18
course of speaking to them that they feel that, you know,
19
something that they should have disclosed to the investors.
20
You can argue back and forth.
21
MR. WIEGMANN:
22
just for one second.
23
THE COURT:
24
MR. WIEGMANN:
25
Your Honor, may I be heard on that
Yes.
Even with respect to particular
items, there has to be, even if there's a duty generally to
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1
the investors, you would need a duty to disclose particular
2
items.
3
4
For example, internal fund deliberations are
not things that have to be disclosed there is no duty.
5
THE COURT:
Nobody says it has to be disclosed.
6
It's not material then you, you know, of course they don't
7
have disclose.
8
9
10
MR. WIEGMANN:
It's not an issue of materiality if
thinking about a corporation is anything about being bought
out.
11
THE COURT:
You can argue that on this record.
12
There is nothing here that would support the jury's verdict
13
that there is a material misrepresentation of a fact or that
14
there's a material misrepresentation or failure to, you know,
15
disclose a material fact.
16
I mean, I guess you can argue all of that, but
17
I think the charge is correct and you're telling me the
18
charge is not correct because it will allow the jury to
19
render a verdict based upon the use of the word omission here
20
when there cannot be any omission.
21
work that way.
But, you know, it doesn't
22
I mean, as long as the charge is correct and
23
it gives the jury the legal right to return a verdict based
24
upon the facts of this particular case, then the charge is
25
correct.
You're talking about the fact that something has
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
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1
been added to the charge which is not relevant to this case
2
because there is no such thing as omissions here.
3
4
MR. WIEGMANN:
In the context of the facts proven,
we think that that's correct Your Honor.
5
THE COURT:
I was thinking about eliminating that.
6
Do you want to eliminate the consent of material omissions
7
and safeguard the possibility that you may have to retry this
8
case before Judge Korman.
9
MR. SINCLAIR:
10
THE COURT:
We have no worries this b that.
You're worried about anything.
11
not worried about the fact that case comes back.
12
worried about the fact that it's going to be affirmed.
13
MR. SINCLAIR:
14
part of the statute.
15
THE COURT:
16
21
As you pointed out, this is a large
The heart of your case doesn't focus on
MR. SINCLAIR:
I can give you an example if that
would be helpful.
19
20
You're not
omissions.
17
18
They're
THE COURT:
You gave me one before.
Give me
another.
MR. SINCLAIR:
On the April 25th conference call,
22
Mr. Cioffi says, "A couple million dollars in redemptions for
23
June 30th."
24
it's also an omission because you couldn't mention the fact
25
that there are redemptions for may and there are redemptions
That's an affirmative misrepresentation, but
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
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Charge Conference
1
for July at that time.
2
find both it's a simple example.
3
THE COURT:
4
We'll, let it go this way.
MR. WIEGMANN:
Would you like me to address that
hypothetical, Your Honor?
7
8
So, it's both and so the jury can
Anything else?
5
6
THE COURT:
the charge.
9
No, no because I'm not going to change
You have your exceptions.
MS. KEELEY:
Yes, Your Honor.
10
MR. WIEGMANN:
11
MS. KEELEY:
12
Thank you, Your Honor.
On 16, going to the top of 17, where
you discuss the second element about an intent to defraud.
13
THE COURT:
14
MS. KEELEY:
Yes.
We would request that that say intent
15
to defraud investors as that is the scheme pled in the
16
indictment.
17
18
THE COURT:
I'm sure the Government will have no
objection to say intent to defraud investors.
19
MR. MCGOVERN:
Perfectly fine.
20
MR. SINCLAIR:
No objection.
21
THE COURT:
22
25
I can't imagine the jury is still
thinking of anybody else in this case but go ahead.
23
24
2721
MS. KEELEY:
We had some testimony as well, Your
Honor.
THE COURT:
Okay.
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
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MS. KEELEY:
2722
There is language in the second
2
element, I'm sorry.
3
concerning, nor is it a defense to the crime of securities
4
fraud that an investor did not exercise care in evaluating
5
the brokers' advice or recommendation.
6
THE COURT:
7
concerned about now?
8
9
Yes, the second element, I believe,
What part of the charge are you
MS. KEELEY:
I'm looking for a Page, Your Honor.
I
believe it's Page 16, yes, at lines 14 to 15.
10
THE COURT:
Yes.
Okay.
So, you're talking about
11
specifically for the court reporter's edification this
12
language, "Nor is it a defense to the crime of securities
13
fraud that an investor did not exercise care in evaluating a
14
broker's advice or recommendation."
15
What's your problem with that?
16
MS. KEELEY:
We just think it's confusing given
17
neither of the defendants is a broker or alleged to have been
18
a broke.
19
going.
And we're not sure what this language is exactly
20
THE COURT:
21
MR. SINCLAIR:
22
23
24
25
That doesn't seal to be relevant here.
We can use the words "portfolio
manager."
MS. KEELEY:
This is not a case about a portfolio
manager making an advice or recommendation.
THE COURT:
I think that it won't harm the charge
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
Charge Conference
1
if I just eliminated that.
2
different purpose.
3
4
2723
I think that's designed for a
I will eliminate that.
Go ahead.
MS. KEELEY:
Anything else?
With respect to Count One of the
5
conspiracy, there seems to be a little bits of an
6
inconsistent in this charge sometimes it mentions wire fraud
7
as being an object.
8
9
10
THE COURT:
object is the securities fraud, but bear in mind, as I told
you yesterday, that I didn't edit this thing.
11
MS. KEELEY:
12
THE COURT:
13
MS. KEELEY:
14
THE COURT:
15
We're going to make sure that the
I understand.
I am somewhat otherwise engaged.
I understand, Your Honor.
The object of the conspiracy, the
securities fraud.
16
MR. SINCLAIR:
17
wire fraud, Your Honor.
18
indictment.
19
20
21
22
23
THE COURT:
It's the securities fraud and the
That's how it's charged in the
We'll focus in on securities fraud that
sounds more.
MR. MCGOVERN:
Wire fraud is the subparts of the
securities fraud.
THE COURT:
I'm going to say securities fraud and
24
you can absorb wire frauds in the context of that, but I
25
don't want to give a separate charge as to the object of
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
Charge Conference
1
that.
2
2724
I'm just not comfortable in doing that.
MR. MCGOVERN:
As far as the language of the charge
3
goes, we think it's fine for those purposes.
4
jury question.
5
question about whether or not they can consider the
6
conspiracy with respect to the wire frauds because.
7
If there is a
Perhaps the concern is that if there is a
THE COURT:
I'm leaving wire frauds out.
If it's
8
in here, it's an object of the conspiracy.
I'm just going to
9
say it's a conspiracy charge is what the object is and you
10
said wire fraud correctly is a subset of it and I just don't
11
wasn't to call undue attention to the jury which is going to
12
come in a with a conspiracy.
13
commit securities fraud that's my take of it.
14
MR. MCGOVERN:
It should come conspiracy to
Okay.
It's just that it's for the
15
purposes of how we charge it.
16
that it's -- I don't want the Court charge inconsistent with
17
the language of the indictment.
18
know.
19
THE COURT:
I am just a little concerned
That's the concern.
I don't
I think it could be of very little
20
practical view.
21
going to wash out.
22
talking about when we talk about conspiracy, we talk about
23
the object the being the security frauds.
24
25
Also, when it comes to sentencing, it's
So let me just focus the issue.
MR. MCGOVERN:
that.
We're
Possibly wire frauds is a subset of
I want to be careful is all I'm saying.
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
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1
THE COURT:
2725
Separate from the conspiracy to commit
2
wire fraud here.
3
with an e-mail here a telephone call there.
4
has potential for confusion and this type of case we should
5
try to avoid that.
6
What's wire fraud again and you're dealing
MR. MCGOVERN:
I think it just
I agree with the Court.
The only
7
concern I have is, for instance, there is something in this
8
record in this case that one of the wires that's currently
9
going to the jury is that Mr. Tannin wrote an e-mail saying
10
that, Ralph and I have 40 percent of our non-real estate net
11
worth in these funds.
12
13
14
THE COURT:
That can be part of a securities fraud
argument.
MR. MCGOVERN:
Let's say the jury says that
15
securities fraud argument is garbage, but this wire is a
16
really big problem because there's a stipulation in the
17
record that Mr. Cioffi's net worth was like a hundred million
18
dollars for example so the jury could find them guilty of
19
conspiring to commit that wire fraud.
20
THE COURT:
21
MR. MCGOVERN:
22
That's one of the permutations we're
dealing with.
23
THE COURT:
24
MS. KEELEY:
25
I think theoretically possible.
It's one of the objections.
Our objection was to make sure
particularly the multiple objectives portion that if wire
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
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1
fraud is considered one of the objects.
2
3
THE COURT:
They have to be unanimous as to which
one they're going to be dealing with.
4
MS. KEELEY:
5
MR. MCGOVERN:
6
THE COURT:
7
2726
Correct, Your Honor.
That's fine.
That there is unanimity in there, I
will make sure.
8
Anything else?
9
MS. KEELEY:
In addition, Your Honor, with respect
10
to that and this may be simply na oversight on the part that
11
I was up very late last night.
12
concerning the fact that the overt acts have to be committed
13
during the existence of the alleged conspiracy.
14
THE COURT:
15
charge in here yet.
16
revised copy?
17
done.
I don't think we put the overt act
Did it finally make its way into the
I don't think so.
18
MS. KEELEY:
19
THE COURT:
20
So we'll get the overt acts
Thank you.
It does have to relate to the object
the conspiracy.
21
MS. KEELEY:
22
instructions on that.
23
I did not see any language
THE COURT:
We have some language in our proposed
We have in here on Page 26 what is
24
necessary that the overt act furthers or carries or promotes
25
the conspiratorial scheme.
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
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1
2
MS. KEELEY:
THE COURT:
4
MS. KEELEY:
6
As I said, I may have overlooked that
last night.
3
5
2727
Don't worry.
Yes, Your Honor it is in there.
Thank
you.
In addition, we would request that the
7
language that we proposed concerning the existence of an
8
agreement be included which states, "Nor does the Government
9
meet its burden of proof by showing that people simply met
10
together from time to time and talked about common interests
11
or engaged in similar conduct."
12
THE COURT:
13
MS. KEELEY:
14
THE COURT:
It's not there n there.
I did not see that, Your Honor.
You know what happens with the
15
conspiracy charge is I try to accommodate everybody which is
16
my personality.
17
conspiracy charge keeps growing, growing, growing, and
18
growing and then periodically I look at it and cut it back.
I think become agree with that.
19
MS. KEELEY:
20
very late last night.
21
THE COURT:
22
MS. KEELEY:
So the
As I said, Your Honor, I read this
Would you don't worry about it.
We would rest on Rule 29 with regard
23
to insider trading I think objections on that enough today
24
unless you want to hear all of it.
25
THE COURT:
You got yourself protected an that.
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
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1
MS. KEELEY:
2
THE COURT:
3
MS. EDELSTEIN:
4
2728
I believe Mr. Tannin might have one.
Yes.
Go ahead.
We just have a few comments, Your
Honor.
5
On Page 18 of the charge, lines 9 through 12,
6
which start with, "On the other hand an honest belief that
7
everything would work out that no one would lose any money."
8
We would request that the Court remove that from the charge
9
we don't believe the facts in this case warrant an
10
instruction here.
11
12
13
14
15
16
THE COURT:
It doesn't seem to be relevant to this
case here.
MS. EDELSTEIN:
I don't believe any party actually
requested that.
THE COURT:
I can eliminate that.
It doesn't seem
to be apt here.
17
What else?
18
MS. EDELSTEIN:
I believe Ms. Keeley is speaking
19
about the conscious avoidance instruction.
20
actually part of it actually starts on Page 18, lines 20
21
through 22.
22
THE COURT:
23
MS. EDELSTEIN:
24
we got that out as well.
25
the comments on the draft charge.
I believe
Starting with "Alternatively."
Right.
I wanted to make sure that
Those were just our remainder of
We would just ask that the
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Official Court Reporter
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2729
1
Court incorporate our Instruction No. 3 which is an
2
instruction on the statement of present intent.
3
4
Given the prominence here about statements of
Mr. Tannin we think it's important --
5
6
THE COURT:
was up late at night also but I wasn't working on the case.
7
8
MS. EDELSTEIN:
THE COURT:
Proposed Jury
You want this charge here?
I don't
know what it is.
11
12
I misspoke.
Instruction No. 5.
9
10
I haven't looked at that yet because I
Does the Government have any problem with it
if we can accommodate the defendants.
13
MR. SINCLAIR:
Unfortunately, we got logged back
14
and we would like to return to one of the previous issues but
15
I will look at this one now if it's helpful.
16
17
MS. EDELSTEIN:
Our Proposed Instruction No. 5
which is a statement of present intent.
18
THE COURT:
You want this statement whether a
19
statement was untrue must be determined at the time that I
20
was made.
21
MS. EDELSTEIN:
22
THE COURT:
23
MS. EDELSTEIN:
24
THE COURT:
25
Yes.
I guess that's okay.
And we elaborate on that as well.
I don't know whether I'm going to
elaborate on that.
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
Charge Conference
1
Go ahead.
2
MR. SINCLAIR:
2730
We'll just give you that.
I that actually that's go in tandem
3
if we can return to Page 18 of the draft charge.
4
on the, "On the other hand."
5
THE COURT:
6
MR. SINCLAIR:
The Line 9
Right.
We asked ask that be kept in the
7
previous honest belief in the truth of the representation
8
made by the defendant is a good defense, however, inaccurate
9
the statements may have --
10
11
THE COURT:
I think you're right.
basis for me to keep it in the way it is so we'll do that.
12
MR. SINCLAIR:
13
THE COURT:
14
19
20
I will add the language about the
MS. EDELSTEIN:
We would just preserve or objection
on language on Page 189 through 12 we don't think.
17
18
Thank you.
statement that was untrue and means comment that was made.
15
16
There is a fair
THE COURT:
Balances the language now that I look
at it.
Anything else?
MS. EDELSTEIN:
We would ask that the Court look at
21
our additional language in Instruction No. 5 as well.
22
to elaborate, what it means for a statement to be untrue it
23
must be determined at the time --
24
25
THE COURT:
You can argue to the jury.
Just
I generally
don't focus the jury's attention on specific facts of the
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
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1
case.
I leave it to counsel to argue.
2
Do you want to have a theory of defense
3
included in the charge?
4
entitled to if you want to.
5
6
You can have proposed anything.
Your Honor, we perhaps will have one
tomorrow proposed along with.
THE COURT:
8
MS. KEELEY:
10
That's something that you would be
MS. KEELEY:
7
9
2731
I don't want to to be ten pages long.
No, Your Honor, it will not.
But in
addition along with the other instructions that you will find
proposed today.
11
THE COURT:
Anything else today?
I think
12
fortunately things have broken in a nice way that we can
13
spend the time talking the way we are.
14
MS. EDELSTEIN:
I have two additional comments we
15
would also like our -- if the Court would consider or
16
proposed jury instruction No. 9 about statements and sales
17
talk and puffery.
18
THE COURT:
19
MS. EDELSTEIN:
20
Excuse me?
MR. MCGOVERN:
22
THE COURT:
We object to that.
Do you have a problem with that.
That's true.
24
25
That they
aren't, as a matter of law, material statements.
21
23
Puffery and sales talk.
MR. MCGOVERN:
case.
It's really has no place in this
I mean, there is no sales talk in this case.
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
We have
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2732
1
statements of material we'll argue that the statements of
2
fact about things that he's actually saying he's doing that
3
have independent significant.
4
THE COURT:
Statements of fact, period, is what
5
this is all about and we'll make the jury know that
6
statements of facts.
7
So, I may say that puffery is not a statement
8
of fact as an example if you know if you want me to put
9
something like that I may add that what else.
10
11
12
MS. KEELEY:
We would direct the Court's intention
to our proposed instruction No. 19 on that same issue.
THE COURT:
Okay.
I may put something in there to
13
give the jury a cautionary tale that we're not talking about
14
boasting or puffery or things of that nature.
15
statements of fact material statements of fact.
16
What else.
17
MS. EDELSTEIN:
Actual
One additional point on the
18
instruction with the knowing, willful, and specific intention
19
to defraud in our proposed instruction No. 10.
20
requested that the Court considered instructing the jury as
21
follows in considering whether each defendant had a specific
22
intent to defraud I instruct you that a claimed desire to
23
increase or maintain personal compensation or preserves one's
24
representation is insufficient as a matter of law to
25
establish an intent to defraud.
We had also
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
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THE COURT:
2
Okay.
3
MS. KEELEY:
4
THE COURT:
5
MS. KEELEY:
6
THE COURT:
2733
I'm not going to get involved in that.
What else?
Your Honor, just two last items one.
Two last items.
Yes.
You had the luxury of having elaborate
7
pretrial conference but you know it's a quarter after 4:00
8
and I don't want my clerks to stay up later than 3 o'clock
9
this morning.
10
MS. KEELEY:
11
of the securities fraud charge.
12
THE COURT:
13
On lines 15 through 19, this is part
Didn't we go through securities fraud
charge?
14
MS. KEELEY:
15
THE COURT:
16
MS. KEELEY:
I missed my margin note.
Last time.
Lines 15 through 19 talks about the
17
fact that defendants it doesn't matter whether the alleged
18
unlawful conduct was or would have been successful or whether
19
the defendants profited or would have profited as a result of
20
alleged scheme success is not an element of the crime charge.
21
THE COURT:
22
MS. KEELEY:
That's all true.
Our view is that undercuts the
23
requirement that the alleged fraud has to be in connection
24
with the purchase or sale of security as well as undercuts
25
the fact that the Government has a burden of proof on motive.
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
Charge Conference
1
They have to show intent.
2
THE COURT:
3
MR. SINCLAIR:
4
5
You say that it has to show intent.
Two different things.
The Government never has the burden of proof
on motive.
6
THE COURT:
7
MR. MCGOVERN:
8
9
10
2734
That's right.
But we do have a burden of proof on
intent.
THE COURT:
Okay.
MR. MCGOVERN:
And as you'll see tonight, Your
11
Honor, when we file what the current state of the law is in
12
connection with the security and the Circuit it's really
13
going to be touch upon the purchase or sale of a security.
14
And this language is the standard language
15
because of that.
That it doesn't really make a difference
16
whether the alleged conduct would have been successful or
17
unsuccessful.
18
THE COURT:
That's true.
19
MR. BUTSWINKAS:
We state our objection and for
20
purposes of preservation of record, we also reiterate our
21
request for proposed jury instructions 2, 3, 4, and 12 of our
22
proposed jury instructions filed on October 30th.
23
THE COURT:
24
MS. KEELEY:
25
You discussed those already.
We discussed those topics.
I wanted
to make clear that those are the instructions that we would
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
Charge Conference
1
be --
2
THE COURT:
3
MS. KEELEY:
4
THE COURT:
5
2735
2, 3, 5, and 12 I will take.
2, 3, 4 and 12, Your Honor.
2, 3, 4 and 12.
We'll take another
look.
6
MS. KEELEY:
Finally, Your Honor, I would ask
7
whether you want us to file written objections to the current
8
stage of the charge.
9
THE COURT:
I think you were given every
10
opportunity now to state on the record what the objections
11
are.
We have enough writings as it is.
12
MS. KEELEY:
13
at the time the jury is charged.
14
THE COURT:
We will preserve them and write them
If you want to submit anything to me
15
that is apropos that was discussed today, let's not repeat
16
everything here and put down everything in writing that is
17
not necessary.
18
You have a couple of focused matters.
We have
19
to look at whatever it is that you sent to me.
20
have really done a good job collectively in terms of giving
21
you folks a very good sense of how to prepare for your
22
summations.
23
24
25
I think we
Mr. Sinclair, do you agree with that.
MR. SINCLAIR:
I do.
We have two line edits that
we would propose these are our only proposals.
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
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1
THE COURT:
2
MR. SINCLAIR:
You don't have to be bashful.
On Page 20.
Use of interstate
3
commerce or mails or facility.
4
injected in the list along with telephone, fax machine.
5
THE COURT:
6
MR. SINCLAIR:
7
MS. KEELEY:
8
11
12
What language.
Line two of Page 20.
We have no objection to that, Your
THE COURT:
E-mails make it referable to this case.
Go ahead.
MR. SINCLAIR:
And then our final line edit is on
Page 29, the first element of insider trading at Line 10.
13
THE COURT:
14
MR. SINCLAIR:
Yes.
Corporate officers, directors, and
15
controlling shareholders.
16
considered insiders.
17
the defendant's motions.
18
19
20
We would ask that e-mails be
Honor.
9
10
2736
THE COURT:
And portfolio managers are
And the basis for that Your Honor is
One second.
I will put, "And portfolio
managers," okay?
What else.
21
MR. SINCLAIR:
22
MS. KEELEY:
23
MR. SINCLAIR:
That's all, Your Honor.
Your Honor, we would object to that.
Your Honor, I have the defendants'
24
motion they filed this summer.
25
THE COURT:
You object to what.
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
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1
2
MR. SINCLAIR:
2737
Being that the jury instructed as a
matter of law that a portfolio manager is an insider.
3
Your Honor, I have the defendants' motions
4
from this summer where they both say in both of these motions
5
to dismiss Count Four that of course Mr. Cioffi was an
6
insider because he was a portfolio manager.
7
THE COURT:
I think portfolio managers in the
8
context of this case are considered insiders how else would
9
you true Mr. Cioffi.
10
11
Anything else.
MS. EDELSTEIN:
To make the record clearer,
12
Mr. Tannin joins in the objections made by Mr. Cioffi as well
13
as the requests to incorporate into the charge and we also
14
just again request that the Court give the following
15
instructions which we've discussed earlier which was proposed
16
jury instruction Nos.
17
18
19
THE COURT:
5, 9, 7, and 11.
You said that are they I did different
than what you.
MS. EDELSTEIN:
Statement of present intent.
The
20
statements of puffery, materiality charge, and in connection
21
with the purchase or sale.
22
23
THE COURT:
Okay.
Well, these are all of these
things we discussed here, right?
24
MS. EDELSTEIN:
25
THE COURT:
Yes.
So, you want to be careful that you are
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
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2738
preserving the record.
2
Anything else?
3
MS. KEELEY:
Just, Your Honor, requests with regard
4
to timing just so we can advise other colleagues with respect
5
to closing when the next draft of the jury instructions may
6
come out.
7
THE COURT:
What I propose to do, okay, since
8
Congress yesterday passed a statute authorizing time and a
9
half pay for judges after 5 o'clock.
10
hard on this tonight.
11
an hour.
12
I plan to work long and
Somehow I'm not going get paid $1,200
If I had choices I would have gone to Wall Street.
So I'm going to try my best to get this out to
13
you sometime tomorrow morning and send it over to your
14
offices and then you'll have an opportunity again to talk to
15
me about anything else you want before I start the summations
16
on Thursday and I will charge Monday to get it done right but
17
we'll get this do you hopefully by tomorrow morning some time
18
late morning or something like that.
19
20
MR. SINCLAIR:
I'm loathe to ask this but do you
want us back here tomorrow?
21
THE COURT:
What do you think?
Do you think it's
22
necessary to come back tomorrow afternoon to go over the
23
charge.
24
25
MS. KEELEY:
I think it might make sense to at
least reserve time and we can always cancel.
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
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1
THE COURT:
2
MR. SINCLAIR:
3
2739
If you want to do it.
We're not moving for it we're just
asking.
4
THE COURT:
Why don't we do this.
Send it to me
5
when we get this tomorrow.
If there are any real problems,
6
you just jot it down in an e-mail, I guess, right, without
7
having to burden you to possibly come back for no real
8
significant reason to reargue these issues if there's
9
anything in particular when I get the charge give me heads up
10
tomorrow afternoon and then I can give you the final word
11
Thursday morning.
12
MS. KEELEY:
I take it that's just comments we may
13
have on the changes the Court is incorporating tonight and
14
not to rehash hashing everything we went through.
15
16
17
18
THE COURT:
There is an open item that we still
have.
MR. SINCLAIR:
Abrahamson.
We will get it to you
later this evening.
19
MS. KEELEY:
20
THE COURT:
We will as well.
And then we have until Monday to get
21
the charge and the important thing is we have enough
22
information to get your missions and you think we've
23
accomplished that already.
24
25
So, if you want to write back to me by
tomorrow afternoon feel free to do.
It's Thursday morning, I
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
Charge Conference
2740
1
am not going to give time limits as such but we're going to
2
finish summations about Friday afternoon by the end of the
3
day.
4
What I want to guard against, and be mindful
5
of this, all of you, is to have the rebuttal come in just
6
Monday morning.
7
so if I have to keep the jurors late I'll do so.
8
them late on Thursday, we'll see how things go but I am
9
examining from what Ms. Jaroslaw said.
10
I think that that doesn't sound right to me,
I may keep
We will be finished
with the Government's argument hopefully lunch time.
11
MR. MCGOVERN:
That sounds about reasonable that we
12
would be able to do our summation in the morning and, you
13
know, within striking distance of the morning.
14
THE COURT:
So I think that, you know, my guess is
15
that we should finish with the Government's summation and
16
with the Mr. Butswinkas's summations hopefully first.
17
It will be something to gun for and that will
18
leave Ms. Brune Friday morning and then the Government's rear
19
buttal that should give us ample time it's going to require
20
my really monitoring this carefully to avoid the possibility
21
that the Government would get the last word in on Monday
22
morning before we they get the charge we seriously avoid
23
that.
24
MR. MCGOVERN:
25
THE COURT:
That sounds fair.
All right.
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
Charge Conference
1
MR. MCGOVERN:
2741
What I am concerned about is the
2
possibility of defense summations, not necessarily by design,
3
running very late.
4
THE COURT:
They know.
I mean, if we get a
5
reasonable period of time that the Government uses on
6
Thursday, then we get Mr. Butswinkas and, you know, Brune
7
goes on and on and on I don't like to cut people off and
8
finish with their summation 5 o'clock Friday and it may well
9
be that they have to run the risk of having the Government's
10
rebuttal on Monday but they're aware of that.
11
MS. KEELEY:
12
MR. MCGOVERN:
13
THE COURT:
14
(WHEREUPON, the proceedings were adjourned to
15
We're aware of that.
That's a fair statement, Your Honor.
All right.
November 5, 2009, at 10:00 a.m.)
16
17
*
* *
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, CRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
2742
1
INDEX
2
3
WITNESS:
PAGE:
4
5
6
R O B E R T
7
DIRECT EXAMINATION
8
BY MS. BRUNE:
9
CROSS EXAMINATION
G L E N N
H U B B A R D
2555
2556
2569
10
BY MR. McGOVERN:
11
REDIRECT EXAMINATION
12
BY MS. BRUNE
13
RECROSS-EXAMINATION
14
BY MR. McGOVERN
2620
2629
15
16
*****
17
EXHIBITS
PAGE:
18
19
Government's Exhibit 659 was received in evidence
20
as of this date
2665
21
22
23
Defendant's Exhibit 2659 was marked in evidence as
24
of this date.
25
Defendant's Exhibit 2661 was marked in evidence as
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, FCRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
2658
2658
2743
1
of this date.
2
Defendant's Exhibit 617 was marked in evidence as
3
of this date
4
Defendant's Exhibit 1960 was marked in evidence as
5
of this date
6
Defendant's Exhibits 2659 and 2661 were marked in
7
evidence as of this date
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
*****
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, FCRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
2661
2662
2663
$
$1,200 [5] - 2569:3, 2569:25, 2571:22,
2571:24, 2738:10
$100,000 [2] - 2570:4, 2573:25
$200,000 [1] - 2574:3
$25 [1] - 2694:23
$300,000 [1] - 2605:1
$50,000 [1] - 2573:4
'
'91 [1] - 2575:9
'93 [1] - 2575:10
0
06-1 [1] - 2625:18
08-CR-415 [1] - 2554:8
08-CR-415(FB [1] - 2552:3
1
1 [2] - 2660:17, 2675:3
10 [6] - 2666:15, 2672:14, 2713:7,
2713:10, 2732:19, 2736:12
100 [1] - 2633:12
100,000 [1] - 2574:3
10004 [1] - 2553:4
10:00 [2] - 2552:8, 2741:15
10B [4] - 2677:13, 2677:15, 2679:8,
2690:6
10B-5 [5] - 2677:13, 2677:15, 2679:8,
2679:18, 2681:13
11 [1] - 2737:16
11201 [1] - 2552:15
12 [9] - 2672:8, 2672:9, 2713:21,
2728:5, 2730:16, 2734:21, 2735:2,
2735:3, 2735:4
12:00 [1] - 2620:3
12:21 [1] - 2620:5
12:51 [1] - 2620:13
13 [1] - 2715:24
14 [2] - 2715:24, 2722:9
15 [4] - 2718:3, 2722:9, 2733:10,
2733:16
16 [2] - 2721:11, 2722:9
160 [1] - 2601:20
17 [1] - 2721:11
18 [3] - 2728:5, 2728:20, 2730:3
1828 [10] - 2639:1, 2639:3, 2639:6,
2639:17, 2645:15, 2645:24, 2646:1,
2646:5, 2646:6, 2646:10
1848 [4] - 2640:22, 2641:10, 2641:12,
2642:5
1849 [3] - 2640:22, 2641:10, 2642:5
189 [1] - 2730:16
19 [6] - 2596:15, 2713:3, 2713:8,
2732:11, 2733:10, 2733:16
1930s [1] - 2587:13
1940 [2] - 2577:9, 2577:10
1960 [8] - 2639:24, 2640:6, 2640:18,
2640:20, 2661:25, 2662:1, 2662:7,
2743:4
1968 [1] - 2677:21
1979 [2] - 2557:2, 2681:5
1991 [1] - 2557:16
1993 [1] - 2557:16
1:11 [1] - 2637:8
1:27 [1] - 2650:25
2
2 [15] - 2637:11, 2637:19, 2639:4,
2640:11, 2647:5, 2647:22, 2647:24,
2648:6, 2650:24, 2713:7, 2713:10,
2734:21, 2735:2, 2735:3, 2735:4
20 [3] - 2728:20, 2736:2, 2736:6
20/20 [1] - 2632:23
20005 [1] - 2552:21
2001 [2] - 2557:17, 2576:5
2003 [1] - 2557:17
2007 [44] - 2563:15, 2566:13, 2579:10,
2579:15, 2580:15, 2582:20, 2583:11,
2584:14, 2590:2, 2590:18, 2591:18,
2593:1, 2597:20, 2598:19, 2600:9,
2600:16, 2600:17, 2600:18, 2600:22,
2601:15, 2608:23, 2609:9, 2610:5,
2610:17, 2610:22, 2616:11, 2618:8,
2621:17, 2622:16, 2623:18, 2624:7,
2625:5, 2627:8, 2628:11, 2629:8,
2629:21, 2630:21, 2632:9, 2632:14,
2664:11, 2664:13, 2664:18, 2664:23
2008 [1] - 2600:20
2009 [3] - 2552:7, 2664:24, 2741:15
22 [1] - 2728:21
22nd [1] - 2629:8
25 [1] - 2620:2
2555 [1] - 2742:6
2556 [1] - 2742:7
2569 [1] - 2742:9
25th [1] - 2720:21
26 [1] - 2726:23
2620 [1] - 2742:11
2629 [1] - 2742:13
2658 [2] - 2742:23, 2742:25
2659 [13] - 2642:12, 2642:24, 2643:13,
2644:14, 2658:6, 2658:8, 2658:20,
2658:22, 2662:25, 2663:1, 2663:7,
2742:23, 2743:6
2661 [12] - 2642:10, 2642:20, 2642:22,
2642:25, 2643:12, 2658:22, 2662:23,
2662:24, 2663:7, 2742:25, 2743:2,
2743:6
2662 [1] - 2743:4
2663 [1] - 2743:6
2665 [1] - 2742:19
27 [1] - 2588:11
271 [1] - 2552:15
29 [3] - 2704:8, 2704:10, 2736:12
2:00 [3] - 2635:14, 2635:19, 2652:2
2:13 [1] - 2660:13
2:28 [1] - 2672:16
2:45 [1] - 2674:13
2:59 [1] - 2674:20
3
3 [9] - 2552:7, 2664:24, 2683:5,
2729:1, 2733:8, 2734:21, 2735:2,
2735:3, 2735:4
30th [2] - 2720:23, 2734:22
39 [1] - 2592:3
393 [1] - 2681:18
4
4 [5] - 2629:13, 2629:16, 2734:21,
2735:3, 2735:4
40 [5] - 2560:4, 2577:11, 2592:3,
2705:9, 2725:10
441 [1] - 2681:5
45 [1] - 2667:19
467 [1] - 2681:18
4:00 [2] - 2555:16, 2733:7
5
5 [9] - 2694:22, 2729:8, 2729:16,
2730:21, 2735:2, 2737:16, 2738:9,
2741:8, 2741:15
50 [1] - 2623:5
50,000 [1] - 2574:3
568 [1] - 2676:4
586 [1] - 2665:2
6
613-2487 [1] - 2553:12
613-2694 [1] - 2553:12
617 [6] - 2645:8, 2661:4, 2661:9,
2661:11, 2661:22, 2743:2
659 [2] - 2665:6, 2742:19
69 [1] - 2713:9
7
7 [5] - 2593:1, 2694:12, 2694:20,
2704:9, 2737:16
71 [1] - 2685:7
718 [2] - 2553:12, 2553:12
725 [1] - 2552:20
768 [1] - 2681:5
8
80 [1] - 2553:4
801 [1] - 2641:4
862 [1] - 2676:5
9
9 [4] - 2728:5, 2730:3, 2731:16,
2737:16
9/11 [1] - 2576:10
90 [1] - 2621:3
95-page [1] - 2680:19
99.9 [1] - 2659:18
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, FCRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
1
9th [1] - 2629:11
A
a.m [2] - 2552:8, 2741:15
aberration [1] - 2624:25
aberrational [1] - 2584:8
abetted [1] - 2700:23
abetting [13] - 2698:15, 2698:20,
2698:21, 2698:24, 2699:2, 2699:4,
2699:8, 2699:15, 2699:23, 2700:10,
2700:15, 2700:18, 2700:21
ability [1] - 2622:1
able [10] - 2562:21, 2566:1, 2603:17,
2646:25, 2648:11, 2667:24, 2670:20,
2695:13, 2707:19, 2740:12
Abrahamson [19] - 2676:4, 2676:5,
2676:9, 2676:19, 2677:7, 2677:9,
2677:20, 2678:9, 2678:18, 2679:4,
2681:1, 2681:10, 2681:20, 2683:25,
2684:14, 2685:11, 2690:7, 2690:17,
2739:17
ABS [4] - 2620:23, 2620:25, 2625:13,
2631:22
absence [1] - 2706:9
absolute [2] - 2603:9, 2683:1
absolutely [5] - 2601:11, 2604:8,
2679:13, 2685:5, 2707:4
absorb [1] - 2723:24
absorbed [3] - 2568:4, 2568:5, 2691:7
abstain [1] - 2707:15
abundant [1] - 2628:23
ABX [13] - 2565:23, 2584:25, 2585:9,
2585:11, 2585:12, 2588:1, 2588:3,
2597:16, 2611:18, 2617:4, 2625:1,
2625:22
academic [3] - 2559:24, 2560:14,
2649:7
accept [4] - 2572:5, 2599:8, 2631:1,
2675:5
accepted [2] - 2560:23, 2609:20
access [3] - 2631:3, 2631:5, 2631:6
accommodate [2] - 2727:15, 2729:12
accomplish [2] - 2667:24, 2716:25
accomplished [1] - 2739:23
according [2] - 2581:12, 2671:5
accordingly [2] - 2695:15, 2695:25
accounted [1] - 2554:25
accounting [1] - 2558:1
accounts [1] - 2664:21
accredited [5] - 2605:3, 2605:8,
2605:13, 2605:17, 2606:5
accuracy [2] - 2578:13, 2610:1
accurate [1] - 2609:21
accurately [1] - 2618:25
achieve [1] - 2563:1
acknowledge [1] - 2697:20
acquire [2] - 2622:1, 2626:6
acquiring [1] - 2628:24
act [5] - 2713:21, 2716:11, 2716:23,
2726:14, 2726:24
Act [5] - 2560:5, 2577:9, 2577:10,
2577:11, 2577:12
acted [1] - 2567:11
action [1] - 2681:12
activities [1] - 2567:15
activity [3] - 2558:19, 2683:8, 2715:4
acts [2] - 2726:12, 2726:16
actual [20] - 2559:22, 2571:16,
2605:16, 2611:17, 2620:20, 2632:22,
2647:5, 2679:22, 2680:5, 2680:16,
2684:12, 2684:23, 2684:25, 2685:1,
2685:2, 2685:12, 2688:8, 2691:7,
2718:14, 2732:14
ad [1] - 2670:11
add [3] - 2688:5, 2730:13, 2732:9
added [4] - 2573:1, 2614:3, 2631:15,
2720:1
addition [8] - 2631:12, 2631:14,
2695:19, 2712:24, 2713:17, 2726:9,
2727:6, 2731:9
additional [11] - 2563:19, 2622:15,
2623:3, 2637:20, 2643:22, 2656:17,
2662:17, 2689:4, 2730:21, 2731:14,
2732:17
address [7] - 2591:3, 2663:24, 2677:7,
2679:2, 2681:25, 2686:3, 2721:5
addressed [3] - 2663:20, 2675:19,
2716:1
addresses [1] - 2657:5
adjourned [1] - 2741:14
administration [2] - 2575:9, 2575:24
admissible [1] - 2643:15
admitted [1] - 2639:5
adopt [1] - 2578:4
advance [2] - 2574:22, 2574:25
advantage [4] - 2627:24, 2628:21,
2703:20, 2707:19
adverse [1] - 2586:7
advice [6] - 2660:20, 2698:3, 2698:4,
2722:5, 2722:14, 2722:24
advise [3] - 2557:22, 2557:24, 2738:4
advising [1] - 2679:2
advisor [1] - 2557:23
Advisors [3] - 2557:18, 2557:21,
2577:12
advisors [2] - 2557:20, 2575:22
affairs [2] - 2608:22, 2608:25
affect [5] - 2558:7, 2558:16, 2578:13,
2585:19, 2593:14
affects [4] - 2558:6, 2558:15, 2558:19,
2576:6
affirmed [1] - 2720:12
affirming [1] - 2655:22
afield [2] - 2589:8, 2599:9
afternoon [9] - 2635:16, 2648:9,
2652:1, 2666:1, 2668:1, 2738:22,
2739:10, 2739:25, 2740:2
agencies [1] - 2588:25
Agent [1] - 2554:15
ago [1] - 2630:8
agree [35] - 2581:15, 2581:16,
2591:15, 2592:25, 2595:2, 2595:22,
2595:23, 2595:25, 2596:5, 2597:21,
2598:1, 2599:21, 2600:7, 2601:2,
2603:22, 2604:1, 2604:22, 2616:4,
2616:11, 2632:25, 2641:12, 2649:22,
2654:13, 2659:18, 2660:6, 2680:1,
2686:16, 2689:18, 2706:25, 2709:21,
2710:18, 2712:2, 2725:6, 2727:16,
2735:23
agreed [4] - 2661:2, 2664:7, 2696:6,
2717:24
agreeing [1] - 2696:14
agreement [9] - 2567:9, 2585:23,
2586:8, 2598:9, 2598:15, 2598:22,
2639:12, 2688:15, 2727:8
agreements [2] - 2565:7, 2598:6
agrees [2] - 2686:14, 2686:17
ahead [17] - 2596:4, 2609:14, 2609:25,
2610:12, 2614:19, 2619:6, 2620:15,
2661:24, 2662:22, 2673:14, 2709:13,
2709:18, 2721:22, 2723:3, 2728:2,
2730:1, 2736:10
aid [1] - 2700:18
aided [2] - 2553:14, 2700:23
aiding [13] - 2698:15, 2698:20,
2698:21, 2698:24, 2699:2, 2699:4,
2699:8, 2699:15, 2699:23, 2700:10,
2700:15, 2700:18, 2700:21
albeit [1] - 2677:12
alive [1] - 2610:4
allegation [3] - 2676:7, 2678:2, 2687:4
allegations [2] - 2687:11, 2688:25
alleged [14] - 2688:20, 2710:1,
2710:10, 2710:19, 2710:25, 2712:14,
2715:3, 2716:21, 2722:17, 2726:13,
2733:17, 2733:20, 2733:23, 2734:16
alleging [1] - 2687:16
allow [15] - 2568:14, 2609:16,
2621:24, 2642:5, 2643:2, 2643:8,
2645:8, 2647:2, 2654:19, 2655:8,
2658:19, 2661:2, 2663:21, 2668:15,
2719:18
allowed [6] - 2654:7, 2654:10,
2654:25, 2660:25, 2662:18, 2675:11
allowing [1] - 2648:2
alone [1] - 2587:8
Alternate [1] - 2660:17
alternate [1] - 2660:19
Alternatively [1] - 2728:22
altogether [1] - 2672:10
AMERICA [1] - 2552:3
America [2] - 2554:8, 2554:12
American [3] - 2558:20, 2572:14,
2711:20
amount [5] - 2577:4, 2591:4, 2591:13,
2591:17, 2693:19
amounts [1] - 2566:22
ample [3] - 2609:17, 2650:6, 2740:19
analysis [29] - 2559:12, 2561:6,
2561:9, 2566:14, 2566:16, 2568:24,
2569:8, 2570:6, 2570:13, 2571:25,
2572:2, 2572:18, 2572:24, 2573:17,
2574:2, 2578:10, 2581:7, 2584:8,
2586:17, 2601:18, 2608:24, 2610:7,
2610:20, 2622:2, 2623:22, 2630:5,
2631:8, 2631:11
analyze [2] - 2567:8, 2632:6
analyzed [1] - 2562:8
analyzing [1] - 2563:3
AND [1] - 2552:7
announce [1] - 2593:2
announcing [1] - 2595:20
annual [1] - 2566:7
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, FCRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
2
answer [19] - 2561:18, 2562:21,
2562:24, 2563:24, 2579:21, 2588:21,
2588:22, 2596:8, 2596:9, 2597:25,
2615:9, 2615:16, 2631:10, 2633:7,
2652:10, 2677:24, 2684:4
answered [4] - 2571:5, 2571:19,
2582:3, 2605:24
answering [3] - 2580:3, 2596:2,
2607:18
answers [2] - 2596:1, 2616:17
ante [4] - 2581:2, 2632:21, 2632:25
Anthony [1] - 2553:11
anthony_Frisolone@nyed.uscourts.
gov [1] - 2553:13
anticipate [1] - 2667:2
anticipating [1] - 2586:15
anticipation [1] - 2638:9
anyway [1] - 2604:12
apart [1] - 2716:7
apologize [3] - 2606:1, 2645:21,
2691:22
Appeals [1] - 2681:24
appear [1] - 2577:4
appearance [2] - 2574:14, 2595:4
Appearances [1] - 2553:1
appearances [1] - 2554:10
appeared [1] - 2624:25
appellate [1] - 2679:2
Apple [3] - 2711:21, 2711:22, 2711:23
application [3] - 2641:25, 2653:2,
2686:11
applies [1] - 2661:11
apply [5] - 2643:8, 2655:11, 2656:21,
2669:9, 2679:5
appreciate [3] - 2597:2, 2645:7,
2686:4
appreciates [1] - 2589:15
approach [3] - 2576:16, 2634:9,
2645:21
appropriate [2] - 2573:19, 2686:15
appropriately [2] - 2591:12, 2663:20
April [15] - 2563:15, 2566:3, 2567:8,
2579:15, 2585:2, 2585:17, 2588:8,
2601:20, 2603:19, 2624:14, 2625:1,
2626:22, 2628:5, 2630:4, 2720:21
apropos [1] - 2735:15
apt [1] - 2728:16
arbitrage [1] - 2631:24
archiving [1] - 2664:15
area [5] - 2559:14, 2559:19, 2560:3,
2560:8, 2697:23
areas [2] - 2559:9, 2559:10
arguably [2] - 2654:11, 2691:3
argue [20] - 2677:14, 2680:18,
2686:25, 2691:5, 2696:1, 2698:13,
2703:12, 2704:20, 2705:14, 2706:2,
2708:13, 2713:14, 2718:8, 2718:9,
2718:20, 2719:11, 2719:16, 2730:24,
2731:1, 2732:1
arguing [1] - 2684:10
argument [6] - 2677:25, 2679:12,
2705:17, 2725:13, 2725:15, 2740:10
argument's [1] - 2701:9
argumentative [1] - 2606:17
arguments [6] - 2665:10, 2665:13,
2665:16, 2665:17, 2666:9, 2695:5
arises [2] - 2703:19, 2704:3
arithmetic [2] - 2619:11, 2624:23
arrangement [2] - 2572:20, 2598:22
arrangements [3] - 2567:11, 2585:23,
2587:17
arriving [1] - 2621:6
art [1] - 2606:5
article [2] - 2560:15, 2576:16
articles [3] - 2560:12, 2560:14,
2573:11
articulate [1] - 2718:11
articulated [2] - 2565:15, 2606:10
artifice [1] - 2716:22
arts [2] - 2556:12, 2556:22
Arts [2] - 2557:1, 2557:4
ascertain [1] - 2631:3
ascertaining [1] - 2581:5
aside [2] - 2636:1, 2680:8
aspect [1] - 2706:6
assess [2] - 2561:25, 2609:1
assessing [1] - 2644:21
asset [5] - 2562:17, 2565:12, 2610:25,
2623:1, 2623:2
Asset [1] - 2664:17
assets [31] - 2582:1, 2584:17,
2584:18, 2584:19, 2586:10, 2586:12,
2594:24, 2594:25, 2595:21, 2598:20,
2598:24, 2599:4, 2599:6, 2599:7,
2599:14, 2612:5, 2613:13, 2613:15,
2613:25, 2621:12, 2621:25, 2622:1,
2622:14, 2623:24, 2626:16, 2626:22,
2626:24, 2628:6, 2628:24, 2693:21
assigned [1] - 2664:21
assimilate [1] - 2566:1
Assistant [2] - 2552:18, 2554:13
assistant [2] - 2557:16, 2569:19
assisted [1] - 2569:7
associate [1] - 2557:13
Associate [1] - 2664:9
associated [1] - 2623:8
assume [6] - 2580:22, 2583:5, 2623:2,
2623:3, 2623:5, 2650:17
assumed [3] - 2625:4, 2625:5, 2626:8
assuming [3] - 2609:21, 2624:23,
2697:17
assumptions [2] - 2558:15, 2616:12
assure [1] - 2581:25
attached [1] - 2645:18
attacks [1] - 2558:1
attempted [1] - 2587:20
attempting [1] - 2687:23
attend [1] - 2663:12
attention [11] - 2615:18, 2641:24,
2650:18, 2666:8, 2670:19, 2674:23,
2681:1, 2690:11, 2711:5, 2724:11,
2730:25
attorney [6] - 2569:20, 2590:20,
2591:24, 2605:17, 2605:20, 2667:13
Attorney [1] - 2552:14
attorneys [2] - 2553:3, 2608:22
Attorneys [3] - 2552:18, 2552:19,
2554:13
attribution [3] - 2572:3, 2572:25,
2573:1
August [2] - 2632:8, 2632:13
Austin [2] - 2698:10, 2698:12
authenticity [1] - 2639:13
author [2] - 2571:3, 2571:18
authored [2] - 2577:1, 2698:10
authority [2] - 2690:8, 2703:24
authorizing [1] - 2738:8
available [20] - 2580:21, 2590:3,
2611:6, 2611:8, 2611:9, 2611:11,
2611:15, 2611:20, 2612:11, 2616:18,
2616:20, 2623:17, 2625:6, 2626:13,
2626:17, 2626:18, 2628:18, 2630:25,
2631:3, 2650:11
average [1] - 2607:16
averse [1] - 2650:1
avoid [6] - 2647:1, 2647:6, 2647:7,
2725:5, 2740:20, 2740:22
avoidance [5] - 2712:25, 2713:1,
2713:5, 2713:13, 2728:19
aware [4] - 2636:3, 2638:3, 2741:10,
2741:11
awesome [1] - 2672:11
B
Bachelor [2] - 2557:1
backed [4] - 2565:9, 2565:12, 2587:16,
2621:11
background [1] - 2556:25
bad [5] - 2590:14, 2594:20, 2595:3,
2696:7, 2696:23
bait [1] - 2633:14
balance [1] - 2621:4
balances [1] - 2730:17
ballpark [1] - 2649:9
bang [1] - 2625:23
bank [8] - 2559:4, 2565:4, 2565:5,
2587:14, 2598:15, 2621:14, 2683:7
Bank [2] - 2559:6, 2675:1
Bank of America [5] - 2621:17,
2621:19, 2629:7, 2643:24, 2658:17
banks [4] - 2594:5, 2598:18, 2622:22
Barclay's [3] - 2621:16, 2628:18,
2628:23
base [1] - 2562:12
based [28] - 2563:3, 2566:14, 2572:3,
2573:5, 2573:20, 2605:18, 2606:4,
2606:24, 2608:20, 2611:2, 2623:22,
2625:6, 2629:22, 2664:15, 2664:17,
2683:21, 2684:6, 2688:16, 2688:24,
2691:19, 2693:20, 2695:9, 2705:21,
2709:21, 2714:3, 2719:19, 2719:23
baseline [1] - 2565:19
bashful [1] - 2736:1
basic [4] - 2568:3, 2612:1, 2612:2,
2702:7
basis [11] - 2563:14, 2564:12, 2568:3,
2568:7, 2578:10, 2581:19, 2607:18,
2610:5, 2643:8, 2730:11, 2736:16
Bated [1] - 2707:25
Bear [17] - 2587:19, 2645:1, 2646:21,
2646:22, 2646:23, 2647:1, 2647:4,
2652:24, 2653:9, 2664:8, 2664:11,
2664:14, 2664:17, 2664:20, 2664:21
bear [2] - 2673:9, 2723:9
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, FCRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
3
bearish [1] - 2587:5
Beattie [3] - 2644:10, 2659:25,
2662:16
bEATTIE [1] - 2553:5
BEATTIE [33] - 2640:15, 2640:17,
2640:21, 2641:11, 2641:21, 2642:8,
2642:12, 2642:17, 2642:24, 2643:3,
2643:10, 2643:16, 2643:21, 2644:5,
2645:15, 2647:15, 2647:17, 2647:25,
2657:24, 2658:2, 2658:6, 2658:8,
2658:11, 2658:15, 2658:17, 2658:24,
2659:6, 2659:13, 2662:17, 2662:21,
2662:25, 2663:3, 2663:6
beauty [1] - 2672:8
became [2] - 2592:20, 2592:21
become [1] - 2727:16
becoming [1] - 2666:23
BEFORE [1] - 2552:11
began [1] - 2557:8
begin [3] - 2597:3, 2624:21, 2709:24
beginning [2] - 2633:21, 2715:20
begins [1] - 2713:22
behalf [1] - 2638:13
behavior [1] - 2567:2
behind [2] - 2655:20, 2699:11
belief [2] - 2728:6, 2730:7
bell [1] - 2672:6
below [3] - 2581:21, 2581:24, 2716:1
belt [1] - 2701:21
bench [1] - 2554:6
bend [1] - 2602:4
benefit [1] - 2702:17
benefits [1] - 2702:18
BENTON [1] - 2552:13
best [6] - 2584:9, 2595:22, 2596:25,
2628:16, 2668:16, 2738:12
bet [1] - 2625:21
bets [3] - 2615:17, 2631:2, 2631:4
better [5] - 2586:20, 2588:25, 2667:2,
2700:25, 2701:3
between [16] - 2559:22, 2579:6,
2587:6, 2596:21, 2597:4, 2646:15,
2659:4, 2659:5, 2663:14, 2679:20,
2679:25, 2682:19, 2682:22, 2684:12,
2685:17, 2704:3
beyond [2] - 2610:9, 2656:14
bias [2] - 2675:16, 2675:22
bibliography [1] - 2570:25
big [10] - 2557:25, 2560:8, 2592:20,
2592:21, 2592:25, 2622:22, 2644:21,
2694:9, 2715:7, 2725:16
bigger [1] - 2653:4
biggest [3] - 2601:19, 2602:21,
2606:25
bill [5] - 2572:1, 2572:17, 2572:23,
2573:18, 2574:6
billing [1] - 2572:21
billings [3] - 2572:3, 2572:8, 2573:21
billion [3] - 2596:15, 2629:13, 2629:16
billions [1] - 2604:6
bills [2] - 2573:17, 2573:22
bit [4] - 2596:19, 2607:16, 2627:23,
2654:1
bits [1] - 2723:5
black [3] - 2606:2, 2613:19, 2613:20
blessed [1] - 2698:11
BLOCK [1] - 2552:11
block [1] - 2659:18
Block [5] - 2554:5, 2554:6, 2577:21,
2592:2, 2682:1
blow [1] - 2633:5
blown [1] - 2619:8
Blue [3] - 2678:4, 2681:2, 2681:9
Board [1] - 2559:6
board [1] - 2638:4
boasting [1] - 2732:14
boilerplate [2] - 2708:19, 2714:24
bolstered [2] - 2566:16, 2567:14
bonds [2] - 2565:9, 2584:17
bonus [1] - 2646:9
book [3] - 2644:18, 2644:20, 2702:8
books [5] - 2560:16, 2560:17,
2560:19, 2577:1, 2620:19
boring [1] - 2656:7
borrow [1] - 2598:10
borrowed [1] - 2607:15
borrowing [2] - 2584:17, 2607:12
bought [8] - 2562:14, 2565:8, 2588:2,
2588:3, 2710:20, 2711:21, 2719:9
bound [2] - 2655:4, 2700:13
box [2] - 2613:19, 2613:20
branch [1] - 2677:24
break [5] - 2584:13, 2619:20, 2660:22,
2671:20
breakdown [1] - 2620:23
Brian [1] - 2554:14
bRIAN [1] - 2552:17
brief [1] - 2699:22
briefly [2] - 2634:10, 2667:7
bright [1] - 2617:17
brilliant [1] - 2586:16
bring [7] - 2555:2, 2555:9, 2620:9,
2644:8, 2656:23, 2657:21, 2710:12
broad [2] - 2561:9, 2617:3
Broad [1] - 2553:4
broadest [1] - 2561:11
broke [3] - 2582:22, 2582:24, 2722:18
broken [2] - 2671:25, 2731:12
broker [1] - 2722:17
broker's [1] - 2722:14
brokers' [1] - 2722:5
Brooklyn [2] - 2552:5, 2552:15
brought [4] - 2653:3, 2654:9, 2670:19,
2670:24
Brown's [1] - 2602:20
Brune [15] - 2554:20, 2568:9, 2568:11,
2580:6, 2619:23, 2620:15, 2629:8,
2633:19, 2633:23, 2635:7, 2637:24,
2638:14, 2644:9, 2740:18, 2741:6
BRUNE [42] - 2553:2, 2553:5, 2554:20,
2555:3, 2555:8, 2555:19, 2556:5,
2556:7, 2560:25, 2561:5, 2564:8,
2564:16, 2568:13, 2568:21, 2568:22,
2569:10, 2590:24, 2618:14, 2619:24,
2620:16, 2620:18, 2627:20, 2627:25,
2628:3, 2629:3, 2633:15, 2634:5,
2635:23, 2636:18, 2637:17, 2638:5,
2638:15, 2644:10, 2660:1, 2663:20,
2663:24, 2664:4, 2665:11, 2673:24,
2674:11, 2742:8, 2742:12
Brune's [1] - 2571:6
brush [1] - 2617:3
BSAM [1] - 2646:25
buck [1] - 2625:23
bucks [1] - 2694:9
building [1] - 2599:1
built [1] - 2558:5
bullish [1] - 2587:3
bumps [1] - 2601:13
bunch [1] - 2578:12
burden [6] - 2669:10, 2727:9, 2733:25,
2734:4, 2734:7, 2739:7
Bureau [2] - 2553:8, 2557:14
Bush [2] - 2575:9, 2575:22
business [14] - 2556:10, 2556:11,
2556:15, 2567:19, 2576:18, 2589:5,
2593:20, 2593:23, 2600:14, 2617:15,
2663:11, 2702:16, 2704:2, 2716:12
Business [5] - 2557:11, 2557:12,
2571:13, 2605:7, 2605:22
BUTSWINKAS [44] - 2552:21,
2554:17, 2606:13, 2615:9, 2618:13,
2618:20, 2619:2, 2620:1, 2634:9,
2634:12, 2635:6, 2635:12, 2635:17,
2636:1, 2636:11, 2636:17, 2637:14,
2649:22, 2649:24, 2650:23, 2653:23,
2654:4, 2654:20, 2656:12, 2657:11,
2660:2, 2661:3, 2661:6, 2661:9,
2661:12, 2661:15, 2661:17, 2661:20,
2661:25, 2662:3, 2662:6, 2662:13,
2665:9, 2668:5, 2673:15, 2674:7,
2674:16, 2709:15, 2734:19
Butswinkas [10] - 2554:17, 2580:7,
2619:22, 2635:5, 2648:14, 2653:22,
2661:1, 2668:3, 2668:8, 2741:6
Butswinkas's [1] - 2740:16
buttal [1] - 2740:19
buy [8] - 2587:21, 2587:24, 2613:15,
2613:21, 2677:4, 2705:16, 2710:23
buyers [2] - 2692:6, 2692:13
buying [7] - 2584:17, 2584:22,
2613:22, 2627:10, 2627:13, 2628:6,
2707:19
BY [20] - 2552:16, 2552:21, 2553:5,
2556:7, 2561:5, 2568:22, 2569:16,
2589:19, 2613:17, 2614:21, 2616:2,
2618:4, 2619:13, 2620:18, 2628:3,
2629:6, 2742:8, 2742:10, 2742:12,
2742:14
C
Cadman [1] - 2552:15
calculation [1] - 2619:3
calculations [1] - 2626:8
California [1] - 2572:15
Cambridge [1] - 2557:15
CAMPBELL [1] - 2552:13
cancel [1] - 2738:25
cannot [3] - 2593:8, 2608:19, 2719:20
canon [1] - 2640:2
capable [3] - 2608:16, 2608:19, 2650:7
capacity [1] - 2559:5
capital [9] - 2559:21, 2562:18,
2563:19, 2565:5, 2581:21, 2581:24,
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, FCRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
4
2582:7, 2588:24, 2631:24
Capital [1] - 2560:8
care [6] - 2560:20, 2644:2, 2675:14,
2714:18, 2722:4, 2722:13
career [2] - 2557:8, 2558:5
careful [4] - 2613:25, 2712:8, 2724:25,
2737:25
carefully [1] - 2740:20
carries [1] - 2726:24
carry [1] - 2584:16
carve [1] - 2685:10
case [124] - 2558:16, 2561:7, 2561:13,
2565:4, 2565:6, 2570:20, 2572:9,
2572:12, 2572:13, 2572:17, 2573:2,
2574:2, 2574:7, 2574:13, 2574:17,
2574:19, 2577:2, 2578:1, 2578:16,
2589:12, 2590:9, 2591:11, 2593:19,
2594:8, 2596:6, 2601:15, 2607:20,
2608:2, 2609:3, 2610:15, 2610:16,
2618:6, 2618:12, 2633:10, 2633:11,
2633:18, 2635:21, 2636:4, 2637:7,
2641:8, 2641:9, 2650:18, 2652:20,
2653:3, 2653:7, 2654:7, 2654:15,
2654:18, 2654:20, 2655:1, 2655:7,
2655:8, 2655:10, 2655:13, 2655:15,
2655:17, 2655:19, 2655:23, 2657:5,
2657:7, 2660:20, 2665:14, 2665:20,
2667:25, 2671:14, 2676:10, 2677:9,
2677:10, 2677:13, 2678:4, 2678:9,
2678:10, 2678:21, 2679:4, 2679:7,
2679:9, 2681:6, 2681:8, 2681:9,
2681:10, 2682:18, 2682:21, 2682:25,
2683:13, 2686:10, 2686:20, 2688:25,
2689:7, 2689:11, 2690:14, 2690:21,
2694:21, 2696:10, 2699:8, 2699:17,
2699:23, 2705:24, 2706:15, 2707:1,
2707:2, 2707:9, 2708:16, 2710:2,
2711:12, 2712:4, 2716:20, 2719:24,
2720:1, 2720:8, 2720:11, 2720:15,
2721:22, 2722:23, 2725:4, 2725:8,
2728:9, 2728:12, 2729:6, 2731:1,
2731:25, 2736:9, 2737:8
cases [13] - 2572:11, 2653:25, 2654:4,
2655:24, 2656:10, 2657:10, 2669:9,
2676:15, 2678:24, 2681:3, 2685:20,
2685:23, 2709:21
cash [1] - 2606:4
cashing [1] - 2689:22
categories [1] - 2561:9
category [1] - 2561:11
causal [2] - 2592:11, 2592:18
causally [1] - 2593:8
CAUSE [1] - 2552:10
caused [4] - 2585:22, 2596:7, 2596:12,
2701:25
causes [1] - 2681:12
cautionary [3] - 2667:16, 2712:7,
2732:13
CDO [1] - 2629:16
CDOs [3] - 2614:15, 2626:4, 2626:5
centered [1] - 2559:10
Central [2] - 2557:3, 2572:14
central [2] - 2559:4, 2618:10
certain [7] - 2561:20, 2561:22, 2562:8,
2578:22, 2697:11, 2715:8, 2718:5
certainly [15] - 2564:21, 2575:5,
2597:7, 2597:10, 2608:15, 2616:25,
2622:20, 2625:11, 2631:9, 2646:17,
2654:13, 2655:6, 2677:10, 2678:14,
2686:1
certificate [2] - 2686:12, 2688:12
cetera [1] - 2702:7
chain [1] - 2640:19
chair [1] - 2588:19
chaired [1] - 2560:7
chairman [4] - 2557:18, 2557:20,
2557:23, 2575:21
chance [1] - 2568:18
change [11] - 2579:5, 2581:17,
2585:15, 2614:12, 2626:24, 2627:12,
2628:14, 2649:11, 2679:8, 2687:1,
2721:7
changed [7] - 2601:3, 2624:15,
2627:4, 2633:3, 2633:8, 2638:5, 2638:6
changes [5] - 2558:17, 2558:19,
2567:11, 2601:4, 2739:13
characteristics [1] - 2602:25
characterization [1] - 2583:1
characterize [3] - 2591:1, 2618:25,
2662:1
characterized [1] - 2626:19
charge [114] - 2590:13, 2590:16,
2636:9, 2648:10, 2649:18, 2650:4,
2650:7, 2669:13, 2669:16, 2669:19,
2669:24, 2670:7, 2670:10, 2670:12,
2673:8, 2673:23, 2674:12, 2675:25,
2676:2, 2676:11, 2676:14, 2676:24,
2677:1, 2680:16, 2680:24, 2682:1,
2682:2, 2682:6, 2685:10, 2686:9,
2689:18, 2690:13, 2691:21, 2692:4,
2694:17, 2695:14, 2697:7, 2697:9,
2697:12, 2697:13, 2698:5, 2698:14,
2698:21, 2700:20, 2700:21, 2701:5,
2701:9, 2701:15, 2701:18, 2701:22,
2701:23, 2702:7, 2704:5, 2704:6,
2704:17, 2704:19, 2705:3, 2708:14,
2708:17, 2708:18, 2709:16, 2709:17,
2710:4, 2710:9, 2711:5, 2711:18,
2711:22, 2712:1, 2712:25, 2713:2,
2713:5, 2713:13, 2713:15, 2713:21,
2714:6, 2714:12, 2715:18, 2716:24,
2717:4, 2719:17, 2719:18, 2719:22,
2719:24, 2720:1, 2721:8, 2722:6,
2722:25, 2723:6, 2723:25, 2724:2,
2724:9, 2724:15, 2724:16, 2726:15,
2727:15, 2727:17, 2728:5, 2728:8,
2728:25, 2729:9, 2730:3, 2731:3,
2733:11, 2733:13, 2733:20, 2735:8,
2737:13, 2737:20, 2738:16, 2738:23,
2739:9, 2739:21, 2740:22
charged [9] - 2567:5, 2669:23,
2678:10, 2695:25, 2700:12, 2709:19,
2715:22, 2723:17, 2735:13
charges [13] - 2618:12, 2635:20,
2669:17, 2669:19, 2669:20, 2670:4,
2673:3, 2699:3, 2699:23, 2710:12,
2710:13, 2710:16, 2716:14
charging [5] - 2673:5, 2674:8,
2674:23, 2694:7, 2714:13
Chase [1] - 2664:10
chase [1] - 2596:13
chat [1] - 2638:11
chatted [1] - 2569:21
chatter [1] - 2643:9
Chavanne's [1] - 2602:21
check [1] - 2672:3
checklist [1] - 2691:9
Chicago [1] - 2557:11
Chip [3] - 2678:4, 2681:2, 2681:9
choice [1] - 2648:8
choices [2] - 2648:7, 2738:11
choose [1] - 2669:1
chronologically [1] - 2592:19
CIOFFI [1] - 2552:7
Cioffi [33] - 2552:20, 2554:9, 2554:18,
2554:24, 2574:22, 2595:10, 2598:10,
2627:9, 2627:19, 2630:19, 2638:13,
2646:9, 2658:14, 2661:7, 2661:9,
2664:22, 2665:3, 2665:9, 2674:25,
2698:2, 2699:11, 2699:15, 2701:11,
2702:2, 2703:3, 2703:7, 2707:13,
2707:17, 2710:3, 2720:22, 2737:5,
2737:9, 2737:12
Cioffi's [4] - 2574:19, 2661:5, 2712:16,
2725:17
Circuit [6] - 2652:20, 2678:24,
2680:18, 2681:24, 2690:12, 2734:12
circumscribed [1] - 2666:21
circumstances [1] - 2697:11
citation [1] - 2681:17
cite [4] - 2654:14, 2678:3, 2682:10,
2690:7
cited [2] - 2681:10, 2682:14
cites [2] - 2654:5, 2681:16
Citi [1] - 2621:18
citizens [1] - 2672:9
civil [16] - 2676:10, 2677:9, 2677:13,
2678:21, 2679:4, 2679:7, 2679:9,
2679:21, 2679:23, 2680:1, 2681:21,
2682:19, 2682:22, 2685:17, 2685:18,
2685:20
civilized [1] - 2670:2
claimed [1] - 2732:22
claims [2] - 2708:9, 2711:2
clarifications [1] - 2671:2
clarifying [1] - 2593:17
class [5] - 2556:19, 2556:20, 2556:23,
2623:1, 2681:11
classes [3] - 2567:19, 2584:23, 2623:3
classifying [1] - 2610:8
Clause [2] - 2691:19, 2692:1
clause [1] - 2691:24
clear [12] - 2579:25, 2612:23, 2656:13,
2674:4, 2677:2, 2697:15, 2700:13,
2702:25, 2710:9, 2710:17, 2711:15,
2734:25
clearer [1] - 2737:11
clearly [8] - 2595:6, 2606:10, 2627:19,
2628:15, 2628:19, 2631:2, 2652:14,
2689:8
clerk [1] - 2638:10
CLERK [2] - 2554:23, 2555:25
clerks [1] - 2733:8
clients [1] - 2674:7
close [4] - 2566:20, 2585:22, 2629:8,
2658:18
closed [4] - 2583:17, 2583:23, 2585:4,
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, FCRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
5
2632:15
closing [10] - 2579:9, 2579:14,
2628:10, 2629:11, 2661:15, 2665:10,
2665:13, 2665:16, 2738:5
closings [1] - 2636:12
clue [1] - 2614:10
co [5] - 2560:7, 2587:6, 2588:19,
2710:2, 2715:3
co-chair [1] - 2588:19
co-chaired [1] - 2560:7
co-conspirators [2] - 2710:2, 2715:3
co-movement [1] - 2587:6
collapse [3] - 2585:22, 2594:12,
2630:6
collapsed [2] - 2599:2, 2631:13
collapsing [1] - 2599:12
collateral [3] - 2562:15, 2598:14,
2623:4
collateralized [2] - 2562:16, 2587:17
colleague [1] - 2638:16
colleagues [1] - 2738:4
collected [1] - 2578:23
collectively [2] - 2672:8, 2735:20
colloquial [1] - 2590:5
color [1] - 2714:12
Columbia [7] - 2556:10, 2557:7,
2571:13, 2589:5, 2593:20, 2605:7,
2605:22
combination [1] - 2621:2
comfortable [3] - 2660:8, 2680:2,
2724:1
coming [5] - 2568:17, 2574:10,
2576:21, 2621:19, 2645:6
commence [1] - 2668:21
commencing [1] - 2665:23
comment [4] - 2589:12, 2593:25,
2712:8, 2730:14
commentary [1] - 2612:12
commented [1] - 2588:23
comments [6] - 2589:20, 2590:7,
2728:3, 2728:25, 2731:14, 2739:12
commerce [3] - 2652:14, 2653:18,
2736:3
commercial [7] - 2576:13, 2588:21,
2594:4, 2621:12, 2621:13, 2621:14,
2622:22
commingle [1] - 2712:8
commingling [1] - 2712:21
Commission [4] - 2559:1, 2560:8,
2588:20, 2681:13
commit [3] - 2724:13, 2725:1, 2725:19
commitment [1] - 2671:17
committed [1] - 2726:12
common [3] - 2606:20, 2614:12,
2727:10
common-sense [1] - 2614:12
communicate [1] - 2709:10
communicated [2] - 2579:25, 2580:10
communicating [1] - 2646:9
community [1] - 2556:15
company [1] - 2595:9
comparison [2] - 2560:4, 2577:11
comparisons [1] - 2626:16
compendium [1] - 2668:23
compensated [2] - 2568:23, 2569:1
compensation [5] - 2569:24, 2646:24,
2659:7, 2659:9, 2732:23
competing [2] - 2614:5, 2614:8
complaint [1] - 2678:10
complete [2] - 2639:25, 2671:3
completed [1] - 2649:20
Completeness [3] - 2639:24, 2645:12,
2645:19
completeness [2] - 2641:6, 2647:3
completing [1] - 2638:18
Completion [6] - 2642:19, 2642:21,
2642:23, 2643:9, 2643:11, 2643:18
completion [1] - 2642:6
component [2] - 2572:23, 2685:19
comprise [1] - 2578:10
Computer [1] - 2553:14
computer [1] - 2571:8
Computer-aided [1] - 2553:14
computerized [1] - 2553:14
concentrated [1] - 2577:6
concept [6] - 2586:19, 2641:6,
2678:11, 2679:23, 2679:24, 2706:3
concepts [1] - 2561:22
conceptually [1] - 2697:9
concern [9] - 2645:5, 2703:5, 2703:6,
2707:6, 2714:2, 2716:6, 2724:4,
2724:17, 2725:7
concerned [11] - 2590:25, 2666:14,
2675:17, 2682:2, 2683:25, 2703:15,
2705:25, 2715:23, 2722:7, 2724:15,
2741:1
concerning [9] - 2646:9, 2675:16,
2686:10, 2710:20, 2711:1, 2712:15,
2722:3, 2726:12, 2727:7
concerns [4] - 2646:14, 2675:19,
2677:9, 2709:1
concludes [1] - 2636:19
concluding [3] - 2665:20, 2666:13,
2666:18
conclusion [5] - 2563:11, 2564:23,
2566:10, 2568:4, 2579:5
conclusions [15] - 2563:9, 2564:2,
2564:3, 2564:5, 2564:9, 2564:13,
2564:18, 2568:8, 2568:15, 2579:20,
2579:21, 2579:24, 2621:6, 2621:21,
2658:13
Concord [1] - 2712:15
conditional [2] - 2590:3, 2659:23
conditionally [1] - 2657:11
conditions [3] - 2558:17, 2581:18,
2625:20
conduct [4] - 2589:4, 2727:11,
2733:18, 2734:16
conducted [1] - 2595:13
Cone [1] - 2638:10
conference [11] - 2613:1, 2615:1,
2615:19, 2631:1, 2635:2, 2673:5,
2674:8, 2674:12, 2674:24, 2720:21,
2733:7
confidence [3] - 2686:1, 2702:12,
2704:17
confident [1] - 2689:15
confidential [3] - 2702:6, 2704:15,
2705:23
confidentiality [7] - 2702:8, 2702:9,
2702:11, 2703:15, 2706:3, 2706:6,
2706:8
confine [1] - 2714:6
confirm [2] - 2664:21, 2692:25
conflict [1] - 2703:14
conform [1] - 2686:9
confused [3] - 2687:19, 2697:10,
2698:23
confusing [4] - 2632:21, 2688:14,
2712:22, 2722:16
confusion [4] - 2670:25, 2697:16,
2716:19, 2725:4
Congress [1] - 2738:8
connected [1] - 2593:8
connection [17] - 2597:4, 2676:3,
2676:6, 2678:1, 2679:9, 2680:9,
2680:10, 2680:19, 2682:21, 2687:8,
2688:16, 2688:22, 2706:21, 2706:23,
2733:23, 2734:12, 2737:20
CONNOLLY [1] - 2552:19
conscious [5] - 2712:25, 2713:1,
2713:5, 2713:13, 2728:19
consent [2] - 2694:10, 2720:6
consider [15] - 2578:21, 2636:12,
2656:9, 2670:17, 2692:20, 2693:10,
2693:18, 2694:4, 2709:23, 2710:17,
2711:6, 2712:9, 2712:19, 2724:5,
2731:15
considered [5] - 2684:18, 2726:1,
2732:20, 2736:16, 2737:8
considering [1] - 2732:21
consistent [3] - 2580:1, 2582:8,
2675:13
conspiracy [22] - 2669:18, 2697:3,
2697:5, 2699:5, 2700:20, 2700:22,
2701:10, 2709:25, 2710:9, 2723:5,
2723:14, 2724:6, 2724:8, 2724:9,
2724:12, 2724:22, 2725:1, 2726:13,
2726:20, 2727:15, 2727:17
conspiratorial [1] - 2726:25
conspirators [3] - 2710:2, 2710:10,
2715:3
conspiring [1] - 2725:19
constitutes [1] - 2689:14
construction [1] - 2571:6
constructive [1] - 2711:7
constructively [1] - 2636:10
consult [2] - 2635:7, 2637:18
contained [1] - 2612:9
contend [1] - 2688:10
contending [2] - 2687:15, 2688:9
contention [1] - 2682:17
context [15] - 2677:12, 2679:5, 2680:4,
2682:5, 2682:19, 2682:22, 2685:17,
2685:18, 2689:20, 2708:4, 2708:9,
2708:16, 2720:3, 2723:24, 2737:8
continuation [2] - 2640:19, 2673:4
continue [11] - 2561:4, 2564:25,
2582:6, 2583:12, 2585:24, 2586:4,
2589:17, 2596:17, 2598:21, 2619:24,
2710:24
Continued [3] - 2553:1, 2636:20,
2651:1
continued [3] - 2624:24, 2625:2,
2634:14
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, FCRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
6
continues [1] - 2710:4
continuing [3] - 2637:10, 2676:2,
2677:20
Continuing [6] - 2613:18, 2614:22,
2616:3, 2618:5, 2619:14, 2628:4
contract [1] - 2587:11
contracts [16] - 2565:23, 2567:11,
2584:22, 2584:25, 2585:11, 2585:12,
2587:10, 2587:24, 2588:1, 2588:6,
2597:17, 2617:4, 2617:19, 2625:22
contrary [1] - 2677:10
contributed [1] - 2621:13
control [1] - 2703:18
controlling [2] - 2652:20, 2736:15
convenient [1] - 2635:13
conventional [1] - 2565:15
conversation [2] - 2614:25, 2615:21
convict [1] - 2714:3
convicted [1] - 2700:14
conviction [1] - 2699:9
convicts [1] - 2682:4
convinced [1] - 2695:19
cooperate [1] - 2650:20
copies [1] - 2670:20
copy [3] - 2646:4, 2670:7, 2726:16
corporate [6] - 2559:14, 2559:16,
2559:18, 2559:19, 2565:9, 2736:14
corporation [1] - 2719:9
corporations [2] - 2559:20, 2711:20
correct [81] - 2572:24, 2572:25,
2573:6, 2574:8, 2574:9, 2576:19,
2576:24, 2577:2, 2577:3, 2578:2,
2578:8, 2578:14, 2579:22, 2580:4,
2580:5, 2580:13, 2581:10, 2581:13,
2581:19, 2581:20, 2582:9, 2583:21,
2590:11, 2590:14, 2591:5, 2591:23,
2592:9, 2592:16, 2592:24, 2594:2,
2594:7, 2595:11, 2595:14, 2597:22,
2598:7, 2598:8, 2598:16, 2598:17,
2598:24, 2599:14, 2599:19, 2599:25,
2600:4, 2601:3, 2601:17, 2603:17,
2604:9, 2604:19, 2605:7, 2605:12,
2606:8, 2607:23, 2609:3, 2610:18,
2611:11, 2616:18, 2629:12, 2631:8,
2631:21, 2633:6, 2659:18, 2662:13,
2687:24, 2687:25, 2693:21, 2693:23,
2695:7, 2699:16, 2702:3, 2704:21,
2708:14, 2708:18, 2716:24, 2717:22,
2718:7, 2719:17, 2719:18, 2719:22,
2719:25, 2720:4, 2726:4
corrective [1] - 2712:12
correctly [3] - 2656:24, 2666:6,
2724:10
correlated [3] - 2596:24, 2597:10,
2712:5
correlation [3] - 2585:17, 2596:21,
2597:4
correspondence [1] - 2579:8
Counsel [3] - 2554:10, 2557:18,
2557:21
counsel [15] - 2554:14, 2554:25,
2574:13, 2580:8, 2582:4, 2635:3,
2648:3, 2649:2, 2679:2, 2686:14,
2698:3, 2698:5, 2706:2, 2712:3, 2731:1
counsel's [2] - 2646:12, 2648:7
count [1] - 2697:4
Count [5] - 2652:13, 2653:12, 2653:14,
2656:13, 2737:5
Count One [1] - 2723:4
Count Three [1] - 2710:21
Count Two [1] - 2710:18
counted [1] - 2570:23
counter [1] - 2584:21
counterpart [1] - 2596:14
counterparties [1] - 2630:12
counters [1] - 2698:25
counts [1] - 2708:6
couple [8] - 2573:10, 2622:10, 2630:7,
2638:14, 2638:25, 2640:17, 2720:22,
2735:18
course [33] - 2566:12, 2566:19,
2567:16, 2575:2, 2578:7, 2578:10,
2578:17, 2581:1, 2583:14, 2589:4,
2604:16, 2607:6, 2608:1, 2614:6,
2615:5, 2626:19, 2630:16, 2666:7,
2666:22, 2667:1, 2668:6, 2672:1,
2672:3, 2676:17, 2680:18, 2690:22,
2690:25, 2708:22, 2716:11, 2717:1,
2718:18, 2719:6, 2737:5
Court [29] - 2553:11, 2553:11, 2554:4,
2635:3, 2636:11, 2639:2, 2646:4,
2649:12, 2655:8, 2663:21, 2678:4,
2681:4, 2681:16, 2681:24, 2691:25,
2697:22, 2704:11, 2711:13, 2712:2,
2716:6, 2724:16, 2725:6, 2728:8,
2729:1, 2730:20, 2731:15, 2732:20,
2737:14, 2739:13
court [17] - 2554:1, 2554:2, 2560:21,
2560:23, 2574:11, 2574:14, 2637:1,
2652:2, 2670:20, 2672:11, 2673:1,
2674:20, 2680:18, 2683:6, 2690:12,
2717:4, 2722:11
Court's [7] - 2637:14, 2645:5, 2654:14,
2669:13, 2674:5, 2709:25, 2732:10
court's [2] - 2648:21, 2655:22
Courthouse [1] - 2552:5
courtroom [5] - 2620:5, 2620:13,
2637:8, 2660:13, 2672:16
COURTROOM [11] - 2554:3, 2554:7,
2620:4, 2620:12, 2620:14, 2645:23,
2650:13, 2652:4, 2660:12, 2660:14,
2672:15
covered [2] - 2592:3, 2662:12
covering [1] - 2585:20
covers [1] - 2644:11
crack [1] - 2573:20
crafted [1] - 2695:14
crazy [1] - 2604:17
created [1] - 2716:20
credibility [2] - 2669:11, 2700:6
credit [10] - 2587:21, 2588:2, 2588:25,
2621:11, 2622:1, 2624:7, 2624:12,
2624:13, 2632:11, 2700:4
CRI [1] - 2553:11
crime [4] - 2689:14, 2722:3, 2722:12,
2733:20
crimes [1] - 2669:23
CRIMINAL [1] - 2552:10
criminal [24] - 2554:7, 2554:23,
2618:12, 2654:6, 2654:22, 2678:24,
2679:5, 2679:9, 2679:20, 2679:23,
2680:1, 2680:3, 2681:7, 2681:9,
2682:19, 2682:22, 2682:24, 2683:8,
2685:17, 2685:23, 2689:20, 2691:8,
2707:22, 2715:4
criminalize [2] - 2690:5, 2690:6
criminally [1] - 2715:10
crisis [1] - 2609:1
CROSS [2] - 2569:15, 2742:9
cross [2] - 2564:14, 2570:25
cross-examine [1] - 2564:14
CRR [1] - 2553:11
crux [2] - 2689:5, 2706:15
crystallized [1] - 2685:16
CSR [1] - 2553:11
culpable [1] - 2715:10
cum [1] - 2557:2
cure [1] - 2652:25
curious [3] - 2584:6, 2615:12, 2672:3
current [5] - 2556:8, 2594:23, 2622:24,
2734:11, 2735:7
cushion [3] - 2581:24, 2623:10,
2623:23
custodian [1] - 2647:1
cut [8] - 2596:13, 2619:21, 2623:3,
2647:9, 2662:19, 2700:13, 2727:18,
2741:7
cuts [1] - 2627:4
D
D.C [1] - 2552:21
daily [1] - 2617:5
damages [1] - 2625:18
Dane [1] - 2554:17
DANE [1] - 2552:21
data [39] - 2562:8, 2562:11, 2562:12,
2562:14, 2563:4, 2573:11, 2573:12,
2573:13, 2586:22, 2597:18, 2608:21,
2609:1, 2609:2, 2609:4, 2609:5,
2609:6, 2609:7, 2609:20, 2609:21,
2609:23, 2610:2, 2610:3, 2610:4,
2610:6, 2610:10, 2611:6, 2616:6,
2616:9, 2617:4, 2617:20, 2617:22,
2617:23, 2625:6, 2631:3, 2631:5
database [2] - 2610:4, 2631:6
date [13] - 2593:4, 2658:23, 2661:23,
2662:8, 2663:8, 2664:24, 2665:7,
2742:20, 2742:24, 2743:1, 2743:3,
2743:5, 2743:7
dates [1] - 2563:19
days [1] - 2667:3
de [1] - 2703:18
deal [15] - 2589:13, 2593:9, 2643:25,
2647:13, 2657:1, 2657:17, 2658:17,
2660:22, 2673:22, 2675:24, 2682:1,
2682:4, 2692:22, 2715:7, 2716:13
dealing [9] - 2567:21, 2630:11,
2647:24, 2657:19, 2678:8, 2707:6,
2725:2, 2725:22, 2726:3
deals [3] - 2676:15, 2701:25, 2702:2
dealt [2] - 2682:3, 2691:1
dean [5] - 2556:9, 2556:13, 2556:14,
2571:12, 2605:22
debating [1] - 2595:6
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, FCRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
7
debt [7] - 2558:1, 2559:21, 2562:16,
2567:7, 2587:17, 2593:10, 2594:15
deception [1] - 2708:12
decide [3] - 2588:10, 2604:20, 2695:4
decided [1] - 2601:16
decision [20] - 2559:22, 2581:5,
2581:6, 2581:11, 2582:6, 2583:12,
2583:13, 2593:15, 2596:21, 2597:5,
2601:9, 2624:11, 2627:4, 2629:1,
2655:22, 2674:5, 2680:7, 2680:19,
2681:9, 2682:9
decisions [2] - 2608:17, 2614:12
decline [2] - 2585:10, 2632:10
declines [1] - 2632:12
default [3] - 2587:22, 2587:23, 2588:2
defendant [10] - 2641:3, 2641:8,
2641:14, 2659:4, 2661:5, 2674:25,
2677:18, 2703:16, 2730:8, 2732:21
Defendant [2] - 2552:19, 2552:19
defendant's [6] - 2591:12, 2640:23,
2641:13, 2643:4, 2691:20, 2736:17
Defendant's Exhibit [14] - 2639:1,
2639:24, 2640:18, 2646:10, 2658:8,
2661:3, 2661:22, 2662:7, 2662:23,
2662:25, 2742:23, 2742:25, 2743:2,
2743:4
Defendant's Exhibits [3] - 2658:22,
2663:7, 2743:6
Defendants [1] - 2554:2
defendants [32] - 2552:9, 2590:13,
2591:4, 2603:17, 2642:2, 2646:16,
2650:12, 2657:22, 2661:2, 2662:10,
2664:22, 2667:4, 2667:10, 2668:1,
2674:18, 2676:1, 2676:11, 2676:22,
2676:23, 2677:21, 2681:23, 2697:1,
2700:13, 2702:19, 2707:11, 2709:14,
2710:3, 2717:7, 2722:17, 2729:12,
2733:17, 2733:19
defendants' [4] - 2661:6, 2707:5,
2736:23, 2737:3
defense [18] - 2555:19, 2582:4,
2582:15, 2608:22, 2637:21, 2648:7,
2652:11, 2660:23, 2679:1, 2681:1,
2686:14, 2691:5, 2715:6, 2722:3,
2722:12, 2730:8, 2731:2, 2741:2
deferred [1] - 2630:10
defines [1] - 2704:14
defining [1] - 2689:17
definition [2] - 2693:17, 2694:13
definitively [1] - 2697:24
defraud [8] - 2716:22, 2717:2,
2721:12, 2721:15, 2721:18, 2732:19,
2732:22, 2732:25
defrauded [1] - 2688:9
degrees [2] - 2557:2, 2557:4
delevering [1] - 2622:14
deliberate [1] - 2672:9
deliberation [1] - 2671:14
deliberations [11] - 2655:24, 2655:25,
2665:23, 2668:21, 2669:5, 2669:25,
2670:16, 2671:3, 2672:7, 2672:9,
2719:3
deliver [1] - 2670:8
delivering [3] - 2666:19, 2667:14,
2667:21
DelVecchio [1] - 2664:9
demand [1] - 2558:17
demonstrative [2] - 2566:9, 2567:17
Dengler [3] - 2553:8, 2554:15, 2641:21
denied [1] - 2710:15
Department [3] - 2557:17, 2558:3,
2558:6
departments [1] - 2608:14
departure [1] - 2624:4
depth [1] - 2589:15
DEPUTY [11] - 2554:3, 2554:7, 2620:4,
2620:12, 2620:14, 2645:23, 2650:13,
2652:4, 2660:12, 2660:14, 2672:15
deputy [1] - 2557:16
derivative [5] - 2584:25, 2587:7,
2587:10, 2587:11, 2617:19
derivatives [2] - 2560:10, 2575:15
describe [7] - 2561:9, 2565:2,
2571:10, 2582:25, 2604:15, 2622:11,
2624:5
described [2] - 2571:14, 2623:20
design [2] - 2576:15, 2741:2
designed [2] - 2605:18, 2723:1
desire [1] - 2732:22
despite [1] - 2688:20
detail [1] - 2561:10
detailed [1] - 2570:24
deter [1] - 2689:22
deteriorate [1] - 2625:20
determinations [1] - 2712:21
determinative [1] - 2699:9
determine [2] - 2620:20, 2624:1
determined [3] - 2621:6, 2729:19,
2730:23
device [1] - 2716:22
dialogue [2] - 2637:10, 2678:5
difference [5] - 2613:9, 2679:25,
2685:17, 2696:16, 2734:15
differences [2] - 2560:5, 2679:20
different [24] - 2559:21, 2585:12,
2597:1, 2597:21, 2597:23, 2597:24,
2600:13, 2603:13, 2603:22, 2604:3,
2604:7, 2604:8, 2604:11, 2604:18,
2613:7, 2613:14, 2624:2, 2641:9,
2641:11, 2654:1, 2711:19, 2723:2,
2734:3, 2737:17
differently [1] - 2714:10
difficult [1] - 2586:18
direct [10] - 2571:15, 2577:25,
2618:18, 2653:3, 2655:10, 2655:19,
2669:24, 2700:14, 2717:6, 2732:10
DIRECT [2] - 2556:6, 2742:7
directing [1] - 2615:18
direction [6] - 2569:9, 2585:9, 2627:7,
2650:22, 2690:1, 2705:13
directly [2] - 2576:20, 2647:18
director [1] - 2595:9
directors [1] - 2736:14
disagree [2] - 2600:11, 2684:20
disagreed [1] - 2600:9
disallowed [1] - 2660:25
disappeared [1] - 2632:20
discharge [1] - 2671:7
disclose [13] - 2705:8, 2705:18,
2706:11, 2706:14, 2707:15, 2707:18,
2707:25, 2708:1, 2708:17, 2719:1,
2719:7, 2719:15
disclosed [9] - 2591:4, 2591:12,
2591:16, 2613:23, 2615:5, 2617:5,
2718:19, 2719:4, 2719:5
disclosing [3] - 2591:23, 2612:25,
2613:25
disclosure [4] - 2560:10, 2615:17,
2707:9, 2707:22
disclosures [1] - 2698:19
discovery [1] - 2555:4
discretion [3] - 2696:11, 2701:6,
2703:24
discuss [7] - 2635:20, 2648:11,
2663:17, 2666:10, 2679:21, 2691:11,
2721:12
discussed [10] - 2579:12, 2579:14,
2629:7, 2706:4, 2717:17, 2734:23,
2734:24, 2735:15, 2737:15, 2737:23
discussing [1] - 2579:9
discussion [2] - 2697:25, 2701:25
dismiss [2] - 2710:13, 2737:5
disputing [1] - 2654:2
disrupted [1] - 2576:11
dissecting [1] - 2573:11
distance [1] - 2740:13
distill [1] - 2589:22
distilling [1] - 2589:23
distinction [3] - 2682:19, 2682:22,
2712:3
distinguish [1] - 2614:6
distraction [1] - 2602:6
distressed [3] - 2586:12, 2599:4,
2623:16
DISTRICT [3] - 2552:1, 2552:1,
2552:11
district [1] - 2655:22
District [6] - 2552:14, 2554:4, 2569:20,
2572:14, 2654:15
doable [2] - 2649:18, 2649:21
Docket [1] - 2554:8
doctor [1] - 2590:8
Document [1] - 2658:8
document [14] - 2641:20, 2643:1,
2644:21, 2645:1, 2645:3, 2645:11,
2646:7, 2647:17, 2647:21, 2652:21,
2657:25, 2658:3, 2661:19, 2670:9
documentary [1] - 2662:10
documents [24] - 2571:7, 2606:24,
2607:22, 2607:24, 2608:1, 2635:23,
2636:13, 2637:24, 2638:2, 2638:7,
2638:8, 2638:12, 2638:18, 2638:24,
2644:7, 2645:5, 2648:2, 2657:24,
2658:25, 2659:9, 2660:23, 2662:18,
2662:20, 2663:9
DOE [1] - 2558:10
dollars [9] - 2566:23, 2566:24,
2572:21, 2596:15, 2599:2, 2601:20,
2605:1, 2720:22, 2725:18
domain [1] - 2689:22
dominance [1] - 2703:18
done [15] - 2558:25, 2562:19, 2575:7,
2577:9, 2588:13, 2589:1, 2622:20,
2626:11, 2626:12, 2650:7, 2717:2,
2726:17, 2735:20, 2738:16
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, FCRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
8
door [1] - 2642:4
double [2] - 2620:25, 2621:3
doubt [2] - 2656:14, 2669:11
down [31] - 2558:9, 2571:8, 2571:10,
2582:23, 2582:25, 2585:13, 2620:11,
2623:12, 2624:9, 2624:12, 2624:13,
2624:19, 2625:4, 2625:6, 2625:8,
2626:14, 2626:18, 2634:7, 2656:18,
2656:24, 2666:5, 2670:4, 2670:7,
2670:13, 2682:2, 2682:6, 2690:13,
2707:18, 2716:1, 2735:16, 2739:6
downward [1] - 2625:2
dozen [1] - 2638:15
Dr [14] - 2555:4, 2555:10, 2560:25,
2561:6, 2568:17, 2569:17, 2569:23,
2571:12, 2575:2, 2576:21, 2577:22,
2579:22, 2589:22, 2633:18
draft [7] - 2709:16, 2709:17, 2710:4,
2711:5, 2728:25, 2730:3, 2738:5
drafted [6] - 2571:5, 2657:15, 2675:5,
2675:13, 2675:20, 2698:11
draftsman [1] - 2571:20
dramatically [1] - 2597:14
draw [3] - 2617:13, 2624:18, 2712:3
drawn [1] - 2608:25
driven [2] - 2609:6, 2609:20
Drug [1] - 2681:10
due [2] - 2609:10, 2658:24
duly [1] - 2555:23
duration [1] - 2625:5
during [39] - 2566:12, 2567:7,
2571:14, 2575:2, 2576:5, 2577:25,
2579:7, 2581:1, 2582:10, 2583:11,
2585:17, 2591:18, 2597:16, 2597:22,
2600:16, 2600:17, 2600:18, 2608:1,
2608:23, 2609:8, 2610:17, 2616:10,
2618:8, 2622:2, 2623:17, 2623:21,
2626:22, 2627:2, 2628:5, 2629:21,
2630:13, 2630:20, 2632:19, 2660:22,
2664:13, 2666:22, 2674:7, 2708:21,
2726:13
duties [1] - 2705:10
duty [20] - 2702:1, 2702:15, 2705:7,
2705:10, 2705:14, 2705:18, 2705:19,
2706:8, 2706:9, 2706:10, 2706:14,
2706:18, 2706:20, 2707:8, 2707:15,
2707:22, 2708:12, 2718:25, 2719:1,
2719:4
dwell [2] - 2627:21, 2680:23
E
e-mail [31] - 2579:12, 2579:14,
2579:17, 2579:19, 2627:11, 2627:16,
2628:20, 2633:11, 2642:22, 2643:3,
2643:11, 2643:16, 2643:23, 2644:18,
2645:11, 2645:17, 2646:15, 2652:13,
2656:14, 2659:3, 2659:5, 2661:16,
2662:3, 2662:4, 2664:8, 2664:12,
2664:14, 2664:21, 2725:3, 2725:9,
2739:6
E-mail [1] - 2553:13
e-mails [18] - 2579:6, 2579:9, 2627:8,
2628:10, 2628:12, 2628:15, 2633:2,
2633:10, 2633:18, 2633:21, 2640:23,
2652:17, 2663:2, 2663:3, 2664:16,
2736:3, 2736:9
early [5] - 2558:5, 2566:12, 2579:10,
2636:8, 2666:2
earned [1] - 2565:9
earning [2] - 2584:18, 2625:12
earns [1] - 2565:6
easier [1] - 2698:22
East [1] - 2552:15
EASTERN [1] - 2552:1
Eastern [3] - 2552:14, 2554:4, 2569:20
easy [2] - 2597:25, 2650:19
echo [1] - 2679:17
Economic [3] - 2557:14, 2557:18,
2557:21
economic [14] - 2557:20, 2557:22,
2558:15, 2561:22, 2562:24, 2563:13,
2575:22, 2576:6, 2589:16, 2600:11,
2600:14, 2615:16, 2617:7, 2618:10
economically [3] - 2564:24, 2603:20,
2616:19
economics [9] - 2556:11, 2557:5,
2559:11, 2559:12, 2559:15, 2560:17,
2561:1, 2584:12, 2591:20
economist [2] - 2559:10, 2580:20
economists [3] - 2557:21, 2559:11,
2601:6
economy [9] - 2558:6, 2558:14,
2558:17, 2558:20, 2584:9, 2600:15,
2600:17, 2601:1, 2616:7
Edelstein [2] - 2674:12, 2679:16
EDELSTEIN [43] - 2553:6, 2657:4,
2675:18, 2679:16, 2682:8, 2682:11,
2682:14, 2683:9, 2683:16, 2683:19,
2683:21, 2684:2, 2684:6, 2684:15,
2684:17, 2688:14, 2694:11, 2694:19,
2695:1, 2699:20, 2700:2, 2700:8,
2700:16, 2700:24, 2701:2, 2701:14,
2701:17, 2728:3, 2728:13, 2728:18,
2728:23, 2729:7, 2729:16, 2729:21,
2729:23, 2730:15, 2730:20, 2731:14,
2731:19, 2732:17, 2737:11, 2737:19,
2737:24
edification [1] - 2722:11
edit [2] - 2723:10, 2736:11
edits [1] - 2735:24
educated [1] - 2589:6
education [1] - 2605:15
educational [1] - 2556:24
egg [1] - 2666:22
eighty [5] - 2569:6, 2570:3, 2570:19,
2574:6, 2574:15
either [6] - 2570:23, 2594:11, 2615:1,
2661:14, 2704:3, 2710:18
elaborate [4] - 2729:23, 2729:25,
2730:22, 2733:6
elected [1] - 2710:11
election [1] - 2555:16
element [23] - 2565:10, 2567:1,
2653:24, 2654:6, 2654:11, 2654:21,
2655:9, 2655:18, 2697:8, 2697:12,
2704:14, 2713:20, 2715:15, 2715:22,
2716:2, 2716:7, 2717:1, 2717:20,
2721:12, 2722:2, 2733:20, 2736:12
elements [8] - 2617:2, 2617:22,
2669:22, 2684:3, 2714:4, 2714:7,
2715:19, 2715:25
eleven [1] - 2572:21
eliminate [4] - 2710:5, 2720:6, 2723:2,
2728:15
eliminated [1] - 2723:1
eliminating [1] - 2720:5
embodied [1] - 2679:24
embrace [4] - 2586:19, 2691:20,
2694:3, 2698:3
embraced [1] - 2679:23
empirical [1] - 2567:14
employed [1] - 2595:9
employee [3] - 2570:11, 2646:24,
2647:4
employees [3] - 2570:10, 2646:22,
2664:18
employment [1] - 2556:8
enactment [1] - 2713:25
encourage [3] - 2681:22, 2687:21,
2687:23
encouraged [2] - 2688:3, 2688:5
end [31] - 2563:14, 2566:1, 2566:2,
2566:19, 2567:8, 2576:12, 2580:21,
2581:14, 2582:7, 2583:7, 2583:20,
2583:22, 2583:24, 2586:7, 2587:16,
2588:9, 2590:4, 2593:10, 2596:14,
2599:6, 2601:20, 2611:17, 2621:16,
2622:7, 2649:20, 2668:13, 2668:17,
2698:16, 2740:2
ended [2] - 2604:4, 2604:5
ends [2] - 2583:4, 2603:19
Energy [2] - 2558:4, 2558:5
engage [1] - 2703:12
engaged [4] - 2567:12, 2701:11,
2723:12, 2727:11
engaging [1] - 2716:11
Engineer [1] - 2664:9
English [1] - 2593:21
Enhanced [17] - 2562:4, 2566:25,
2582:19, 2601:19, 2606:25, 2608:10,
2621:15, 2623:19, 2628:17, 2628:22,
2629:25, 2710:21, 2710:22, 2710:23,
2711:1, 2712:16, 2712:17
enter [1] - 2584:7
entered [1] - 2662:15
enters [2] - 2620:13, 2660:13
entire [3] - 2571:9, 2582:18, 2599:1
entirely [3] - 2603:14, 2641:9, 2696:9
entitled [6] - 2615:14, 2676:13,
2676:24, 2677:14, 2697:1, 2731:4
entity [1] - 2702:18
entry [1] - 2640:9
environment [1] - 2627:7
equally [1] - 2656:21
equation [1] - 2586:19
equity [11] - 2556:19, 2565:5, 2567:4,
2567:6, 2586:3, 2586:14, 2594:13,
2599:5, 2599:23, 2600:2, 2632:15
equivalent [2] - 2684:1, 2688:7
especially [1] - 2686:14
ESQ [12] - 2552:13, 2552:16, 2552:16,
2552:17, 2552:17, 2552:21, 2552:22,
2552:22, 2553:5, 2553:5, 2553:6,
2553:6
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, FCRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
9
essence [1] - 2653:1
essential [1] - 2697:8
essentially [3] - 2565:3, 2625:19,
2695:11
establish [11] - 2654:11, 2654:12,
2655:9, 2655:10, 2655:18, 2655:19,
2656:14, 2684:11, 2685:12, 2705:19,
2732:25
established [2] - 2653:17, 2695:18
establishes [1] - 2711:3
establishing [1] - 2668:12
estate [2] - 2576:13, 2725:10
esteem [1] - 2605:7
estimate [1] - 2649:9
et [1] - 2702:6
evaluating [2] - 2722:4, 2722:13
evening [2] - 2689:25, 2739:18
evenly [1] - 2716:8
event [1] - 2638:17
Everstone [1] - 2557:9
evidence [51] - 2637:23, 2637:25,
2638:25, 2640:6, 2640:20, 2642:5,
2643:1, 2643:8, 2643:15, 2645:3,
2645:6, 2645:9, 2647:9, 2647:13,
2647:18, 2648:2, 2652:21, 2655:4,
2657:23, 2658:23, 2660:24, 2661:1,
2661:2, 2661:22, 2662:7, 2662:10,
2663:8, 2663:9, 2663:10, 2665:6,
2665:19, 2672:2, 2676:21, 2684:11,
2686:9, 2687:20, 2696:3, 2697:16,
2697:19, 2700:12, 2700:14, 2700:16,
2712:4, 2717:7, 2717:9, 2742:19,
2742:23, 2742:25, 2743:2, 2743:4,
2743:7
evidentiary [2] - 2635:24, 2643:8
ex [6] - 2581:2, 2632:21, 2632:25,
2633:1
ex-ante [2] - 2632:21, 2632:25
ex-post [2] - 2632:21, 2633:1
exact [1] - 2570:21
exactly [7] - 2604:11, 2667:9, 2681:8,
2702:22, 2716:14, 2716:25, 2722:18
EXAMINATION [14] - 2556:6, 2569:15,
2613:16, 2614:20, 2616:1, 2618:3,
2619:12, 2620:17, 2628:2, 2629:5,
2742:7, 2742:9, 2742:11, 2742:13
examination [2] - 2577:25, 2618:18
examine [1] - 2564:14
examined [1] - 2555:23
examining [1] - 2740:9
example [14] - 2558:23, 2560:2,
2561:23, 2617:1, 2617:6, 2638:20,
2638:23, 2679:21, 2711:18, 2719:3,
2720:17, 2721:2, 2725:18, 2732:8
examples [2] - 2567:17, 2615:20
except [1] - 2650:4
exception [4] - 2645:17, 2692:16,
2692:25, 2694:11
exceptions [1] - 2721:8
Exchange [1] - 2681:13
exchange [2] - 2664:12, 2664:14
excluded [1] - 2646:13
excuse [3] - 2590:6, 2638:16, 2731:18
excused [3] - 2674:7, 2674:11,
2674:18
execute [1] - 2601:16
exegesis [3] - 2627:15, 2627:18,
2628:19
exercise [5] - 2609:6, 2609:20,
2624:23, 2722:4, 2722:13
Exhibit [10] - 2633:12, 2639:4,
2640:11, 2647:5, 2658:12, 2661:25,
2665:2, 2665:6, 2685:7, 2742:19
exhibit [5] - 2633:13, 2642:18,
2644:18, 2650:10, 2669:1
EXHIBITS [1] - 2742:17
exhibits [6] - 2571:6, 2643:25, 2650:9,
2668:23, 2668:24, 2670:24
exhort [1] - 2686:2
exist [2] - 2702:13, 2703:24
existence [2] - 2726:13, 2727:7
existing [1] - 2621:25
exit [1] - 2593:10
exits [3] - 2620:5, 2637:8, 2672:16
expect [12] - 2565:21, 2585:10,
2585:13, 2586:18, 2624:20, 2624:22,
2625:21, 2626:17, 2650:20, 2671:16,
2691:8
expectation [5] - 2580:18, 2582:18,
2583:6, 2583:10, 2603:24
expectations [7] - 2580:15, 2581:12,
2582:8, 2584:2, 2590:1, 2590:17,
2603:25
expected [5] - 2585:3, 2585:6, 2624:8,
2624:21, 2626:25
expecting [1] - 2573:4
experience [5] - 2573:21, 2576:23,
2622:25, 2623:2, 2695:2
experienced [1] - 2679:2
expert [5] - 2560:21, 2560:23,
2560:25, 2606:18, 2695:10
expertise [1] - 2606:19
experts [2] - 2567:24, 2572:2
explain [23] - 2561:20, 2562:5,
2563:17, 2564:12, 2564:17, 2567:24,
2568:3, 2585:6, 2587:10, 2592:10,
2611:14, 2613:9, 2614:18, 2622:18,
2625:7, 2626:1, 2640:15, 2658:21,
2669:17, 2669:22, 2670:6, 2671:1,
2680:17
explained [2] - 2610:10, 2617:25
explaining [2] - 2559:19, 2617:14
explanation [1] - 2558:14
Express [1] - 2711:20
extended [1] - 2637:4
extent [2] - 2589:11, 2706:19
extra [1] - 2621:24
F
F.2d [1] - 2676:4
face [3] - 2652:15, 2656:14, 2675:9
faced [1] - 2649:17
facilities [2] - 2621:11, 2623:4
facility [7] - 2621:19, 2621:20,
2621:24, 2628:18, 2628:23, 2629:7,
2736:3
Facsimile [1] - 2553:12
fact [44] - 2566:6, 2574:10, 2626:23,
2631:4, 2631:20, 2641:18, 2652:24,
2669:13, 2679:19, 2682:15, 2683:10,
2684:8, 2685:11, 2688:15, 2690:20, 10
2693:1, 2693:15, 2700:8, 2704:2,
2705:21, 2707:3, 2707:13, 2715:2,
2715:6, 2716:4, 2716:20, 2717:8,
2717:14, 2718:11, 2718:16, 2719:13,
2719:15, 2719:25, 2720:11, 2720:12,
2720:24, 2726:12, 2732:2, 2732:4,
2732:8, 2732:15, 2733:17, 2733:25
facto [1] - 2703:18
factor [4] - 2592:11, 2592:18, 2597:11,
2691:7
factors [4] - 2585:20, 2592:6, 2592:7,
2592:8
facts [12] - 2632:22, 2683:2, 2684:9,
2688:18, 2688:24, 2700:24, 2709:21,
2719:24, 2720:3, 2728:9, 2730:25,
2732:6
factually [1] - 2592:24
faculty [2] - 2556:15, 2556:22
fail [1] - 2596:7
failed [4] - 2592:2, 2592:5, 2592:7,
2598:2
failure [1] - 2719:14
fair [13] - 2571:21, 2576:22, 2577:4,
2580:18, 2582:23, 2582:24, 2607:19,
2617:9, 2671:13, 2691:17, 2730:10,
2740:24, 2741:12
fairly [1] - 2671:8
fairness [1] - 2692:22
faith [1] - 2698:3
faithful [1] - 2676:9
fall [9] - 2585:10, 2586:24, 2587:1,
2588:4, 2597:20, 2616:23, 2623:8,
2638:18
falls [2] - 2616:23, 2657:1
false [1] - 2684:12
familiar [2] - 2608:4, 2682:9
far [10] - 2569:4, 2569:24, 2586:7,
2589:8, 2590:25, 2594:7, 2599:9,
2629:19, 2639:13, 2724:2
fashion [1] - 2650:16
fast [2] - 2650:7, 2692:2
faster [1] - 2587:1
favor [1] - 2671:8
favorable [2] - 2600:22, 2697:13
fax [1] - 2736:4
fear [1] - 2671:8
February [3] - 2563:15, 2566:2, 2583:8
Fed [1] - 2559:5
Federal [5] - 2553:8, 2559:2, 2559:3,
2559:4, 2559:5
federal [3] - 2576:7, 2576:11, 2683:6
fee [1] - 2574:10
feedback [1] - 2558:19
fell [1] - 2625:16
felt [1] - 2600:23
few [8] - 2558:23, 2560:7, 2567:10,
2584:14, 2597:9, 2635:6, 2637:12,
2728:3
fickled [1] - 2604:12
fickled" [1] - 2604:15
fiduciary [12] - 2698:18, 2702:1,
2702:12, 2702:15, 2703:17, 2703:19,
2703:23, 2703:24, 2703:25, 2704:4,
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, FCRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
2705:10, 2705:20
field [1] - 2561:1
fifteen [1] - 2718:4
fifty [1] - 2566:24
figure [2] - 2594:19, 2655:11
figured [2] - 2610:6, 2632:7
file [2] - 2734:11, 2735:7
filed [3] - 2673:19, 2734:22, 2736:24
files [1] - 2562:17
final [3] - 2571:17, 2736:11, 2739:10
finally [4] - 2628:8, 2664:20, 2726:15,
2735:6
finance [12] - 2556:11, 2557:25,
2559:14, 2559:16, 2559:18, 2559:19,
2559:20, 2561:1, 2565:16, 2594:4,
2597:12
financial [14] - 2556:20, 2559:8,
2559:11, 2559:15, 2559:22, 2560:19,
2575:18, 2575:19, 2576:1, 2576:2,
2576:3, 2576:5, 2600:19, 2695:2
financing [3] - 2588:17, 2621:7,
2621:10
finders [1] - 2669:13
findings [2] - 2577:14, 2577:23
fine [12] - 2568:13, 2602:5, 2636:9,
2647:25, 2648:10, 2650:3, 2674:10,
2710:6, 2710:7, 2721:19, 2724:3,
2726:5
finish [5] - 2615:9, 2691:10, 2740:2,
2740:15, 2741:8
finished [2] - 2668:12, 2740:9
finishing [2] - 2610:14, 2660:21
firm [4] - 2559:23, 2569:8, 2570:8,
2677:21
firm's [3] - 2632:6, 2664:11, 2677:22
firms [2] - 2559:13, 2565:7
first [36] - 2555:23, 2564:22, 2565:2,
2568:2, 2575:9, 2579:24, 2580:14,
2580:21, 2584:14, 2592:8, 2592:25,
2622:16, 2623:18, 2638:22, 2638:23,
2639:1, 2644:16, 2650:5, 2660:21,
2664:18, 2668:4, 2669:8, 2673:10,
2674:25, 2676:20, 2704:13, 2705:6,
2705:7, 2709:3, 2713:20, 2716:1,
2716:8, 2716:24, 2736:12, 2740:16
firstly [1] - 2668:19
fish [1] - 2653:4
five [5] - 2582:22, 2638:17, 2653:21,
2653:23
Fix [1] - 2602:21
flashing [2] - 2622:11, 2623:20
flesh [2] - 2645:2, 2696:3
flexible [2] - 2641:5, 2671:18
Florida [1] - 2557:3
flush [1] - 2708:15
fly [1] - 2584:7
focus [11] - 2575:24, 2609:13,
2674:23, 2690:11, 2691:17, 2692:5,
2707:21, 2720:15, 2723:19, 2724:21,
2730:25
focused [3] - 2602:10, 2707:2,
2735:18
focuses [2] - 2685:11, 2702:9
focusing [1] - 2682:7
fold [1] - 2678:7
folks [7] - 2567:21, 2570:15, 2585:23,
2620:11, 2643:23, 2695:12, 2735:21
follow [2] - 2614:23, 2645:4
follow-up [1] - 2614:23
Followed [1] - 2611:23
following [4] - 2677:13, 2717:8,
2717:14, 2737:14
follows [2] - 2555:24, 2732:21
fool [1] - 2649:2
Footnote [3] - 2681:6, 2681:17,
2682:15
footnote [1] - 2683:13
footnotes [1] - 2570:24
FOR [1] - 2552:10
force [1] - 2593:10
forced [5] - 2581:25, 2623:15,
2623:25, 2624:1, 2624:5
forecast [1] - 2617:6
forecasts [3] - 2604:3, 2616:13,
2617:19
foreign [2] - 2652:14, 2653:18
foreseeable [1] - 2701:10
forgive [1] - 2633:13
form [3] - 2560:12, 2567:19, 2611:1
formal [1] - 2640:9
formally [1] - 2555:18
forth [4] - 2564:20, 2638:3, 2715:20,
2718:20
fortunately [2] - 2663:6, 2731:12
forward [17] - 2562:7, 2563:14,
2565:1, 2565:18, 2581:7, 2581:8,
2585:4, 2602:4, 2608:25, 2626:9,
2648:5, 2648:22, 2665:13, 2665:16,
2678:15, 2690:23, 2703:16
forward-looking [1] - 2626:9
fought [1] - 2595:13
four [4] - 2580:22, 2623:18, 2638:17,
2667:22
Four [1] - 2737:5
frame [2] - 2591:18, 2603:23
frankly [2] - 2603:6, 2675:17
fraud [50] - 2652:8, 2657:6, 2669:19,
2669:20, 2675:24, 2676:6, 2677:25,
2679:5, 2682:24, 2695:18, 2697:2,
2698:21, 2699:7, 2699:9, 2700:3,
2700:11, 2700:12, 2701:11, 2708:6,
2711:3, 2713:21, 2715:16, 2715:20,
2715:23, 2715:24, 2716:12, 2717:4,
2717:21, 2722:4, 2722:13, 2723:6,
2723:9, 2723:15, 2723:16, 2723:17,
2723:19, 2723:21, 2723:22, 2723:23,
2724:10, 2724:13, 2725:2, 2725:12,
2725:15, 2725:19, 2726:1, 2733:11,
2733:12, 2733:23
frauds [5] - 2723:24, 2724:6, 2724:7,
2724:23, 2724:24
fraudulent [7] - 2678:12, 2683:1,
2686:21, 2707:1, 2707:3, 2707:6,
2713:21
fraudulently [9] - 2676:8, 2677:15,
2677:18, 2678:3, 2678:15, 2687:5,
2687:6, 2687:7, 2687:12
FREDERIC [1] - 2552:11
Frederic [2] - 2554:5, 2554:6
free [4] - 2603:7, 2603:8, 2708:23,
2739:25
frequency [1] - 2627:3
11
freshmen [1] - 2560:17
Friday [14] - 2636:13, 2649:17,
2649:20, 2650:2, 2668:7, 2668:10,
2668:13, 2668:17, 2671:17, 2671:21,
2671:23, 2740:2, 2740:18, 2741:8
Frisolone [1] - 2553:11
front [3] - 2577:16, 2644:19, 2681:25
fry [1] - 2653:4
full [5] - 2555:25, 2633:25, 2667:17,
2671:13, 2678:5
fully [2] - 2671:7
function [1] - 2698:1
fund [68] - 2556:16, 2560:5, 2561:25,
2562:13, 2562:17, 2562:19, 2565:8,
2566:3, 2566:11, 2566:19, 2567:3,
2567:5, 2579:10, 2580:9, 2582:8,
2583:16, 2586:6, 2590:18, 2591:14,
2593:13, 2594:12, 2595:4, 2599:1,
2599:22, 2599:23, 2599:25, 2601:10,
2601:17, 2602:22, 2603:12, 2605:11,
2605:23, 2606:3, 2607:4, 2608:7,
2611:19, 2613:8, 2613:11, 2613:22,
2614:5, 2614:7, 2618:23, 2619:8,
2623:7, 2626:24, 2629:16, 2630:5,
2632:18, 2633:5, 2677:19, 2678:14,
2683:3, 2691:13, 2691:15, 2694:25,
2703:1, 2703:8, 2705:11, 2707:18,
2708:4, 2710:12, 2710:20, 2711:14,
2712:1, 2712:6, 2719:3
Fund [26] - 2562:4, 2566:24, 2566:25,
2582:19, 2601:19, 2606:25, 2608:11,
2621:15, 2622:12, 2623:11, 2623:19,
2623:23, 2628:10, 2628:17, 2628:22,
2629:25, 2694:14, 2710:22, 2710:23,
2711:1, 2712:16, 2712:17
fund's [6] - 2620:20, 2622:9, 2626:8,
2629:22, 2630:6, 2631:13
funds [144] - 2559:25, 2560:4, 2560:9,
2561:25, 2562:1, 2562:2, 2562:3,
2562:16, 2562:25, 2563:12, 2563:20,
2564:24, 2565:6, 2565:13, 2565:18,
2565:20, 2565:25, 2566:19, 2566:21,
2566:22, 2567:12, 2575:4, 2575:6,
2575:12, 2575:13, 2575:15, 2575:24,
2576:18, 2576:20, 2576:24, 2577:5,
2577:11, 2579:15, 2579:25, 2580:1,
2580:15, 2581:13, 2581:18, 2581:19,
2581:25, 2582:6, 2582:7, 2583:23,
2584:14, 2585:4, 2585:22, 2586:9,
2587:19, 2588:2, 2590:1, 2591:5,
2591:18, 2592:2, 2592:4, 2593:1,
2596:7, 2596:15, 2598:2, 2598:10,
2598:11, 2599:12, 2599:17, 2599:18,
2600:3, 2600:4, 2601:8, 2601:24,
2602:25, 2603:21, 2604:4, 2604:13,
2604:25, 2605:12, 2605:14, 2606:15,
2607:13, 2608:7, 2608:9, 2608:10,
2608:13, 2608:18, 2610:17, 2610:21,
2610:22, 2611:1, 2611:15, 2612:4,
2612:13, 2612:21, 2613:6, 2613:24,
2614:8, 2614:11, 2619:7, 2620:20,
2620:24, 2621:4, 2621:7, 2621:11,
2622:2, 2622:5, 2622:8, 2622:15,
2622:16, 2622:20, 2623:9, 2623:17,
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, FCRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
2624:9, 2624:10, 2624:24, 2625:10,
2625:12, 2625:17, 2628:5, 2628:21,
2631:15, 2631:17, 2632:15, 2683:6,
2691:16, 2691:17, 2692:15, 2693:2,
2693:5, 2693:10, 2693:14, 2693:15,
2694:14, 2694:20, 2695:11, 2695:13,
2706:6, 2710:24, 2711:16, 2711:19,
2712:5, 2712:21, 2717:9, 2717:14,
2725:11
Funds [3] - 2572:14, 2626:21, 2626:23
furnished [3] - 2562:20, 2609:24,
2624:19
furthers [1] - 2726:24
fuss [1] - 2640:4
future [7] - 2556:20, 2565:22, 2588:16,
2594:7, 2685:9, 2697:14
G
gains [1] - 2567:15
game [3] - 2649:19, 2668:11, 2695:11
garbage [1] - 2725:15
gathered [1] - 2633:22
general [8] - 2599:16, 2604:24,
2611:11, 2611:15, 2612:11, 2613:24,
2618:16, 2667:23
generally [6] - 2593:19, 2612:13,
2614:16, 2617:24, 2718:25, 2730:24
generate [4] - 2580:15, 2580:19,
2581:13, 2582:9
generically [1] - 2562:2
GEP [1] - 2558:18
germane [1] - 2576:18
given [20] - 2560:2, 2562:8, 2564:10,
2566:3, 2566:10, 2578:3, 2594:10,
2603:18, 2603:21, 2608:21, 2609:21,
2612:3, 2619:24, 2643:11, 2673:4,
2710:16, 2715:6, 2722:16, 2729:3,
2735:9
glean [1] - 2616:17
glenn [1] - 2555:19
Glenn [1] - 2556:2
glib [1] - 2677:11
good-faith [1] - 2698:3
government [14] - 2557:15, 2558:21,
2559:12, 2561:2, 2564:14, 2564:19,
2568:11, 2568:18, 2569:12, 2569:14,
2575:7, 2575:8, 2575:21, 2576:11
Government [64] - 2552:13, 2557:10,
2636:3, 2637:21, 2638:1, 2638:6,
2639:4, 2640:11, 2641:21, 2644:17,
2644:24, 2646:8, 2646:22, 2647:5,
2648:24, 2650:10, 2652:7, 2654:5,
2654:6, 2654:9, 2654:19, 2655:3,
2655:9, 2655:18, 2658:12, 2659:8,
2667:4, 2667:14, 2667:16, 2667:22,
2675:6, 2676:11, 2676:13, 2676:19,
2681:21, 2682:15, 2683:11, 2689:19,
2690:14, 2692:7, 2692:23, 2693:25,
2695:18, 2696:1, 2698:20, 2701:8,
2702:10, 2702:24, 2703:12, 2709:25,
2710:11, 2710:14, 2715:5, 2717:24,
2718:9, 2718:11, 2718:12, 2721:17,
2727:8, 2729:11, 2733:25, 2734:4,
2740:21, 2741:5
Government's [19] - 2641:8, 2642:18,
2648:17, 2655:23, 2659:1, 2665:6,
2666:18, 2666:20, 2676:15, 2689:7,
2700:17, 2709:3, 2711:12, 2712:14,
2740:10, 2740:15, 2740:18, 2741:9,
2742:19
Governors [1] - 2559:6
Grade [18] - 2562:4, 2566:24, 2582:19,
2608:11, 2622:12, 2623:11, 2623:23,
2626:21, 2626:23, 2628:10, 2628:17,
2629:25, 2710:19, 2710:20, 2711:1,
2711:2
Grades [1] - 2605:4
graduate [2] - 2556:9, 2605:6
Graduate [1] - 2557:11
granting [1] - 2676:14
granular [1] - 2612:14
great [2] - 2624:2, 2632:23
greater [1] - 2625:23
gross [1] - 2572:3
grounds [3] - 2659:7, 2674:4, 2710:14
group [14] - 2569:8, 2570:6, 2570:7,
2570:12, 2570:13, 2571:25, 2572:2,
2572:18, 2572:24, 2573:17, 2574:2,
2575:17, 2576:2, 2604:13
growing [4] - 2727:17, 2727:18
guaranteed [1] - 2621:14
guard [1] - 2740:4
guess [18] - 2567:23, 2571:24,
2573:16, 2632:8, 2635:22, 2647:17,
2649:18, 2656:13, 2659:21, 2673:4,
2677:17, 2680:3, 2696:25, 2702:13,
2719:16, 2729:22, 2739:6, 2740:14
guidance [1] - 2696:13
guide [3] - 2669:4, 2670:11, 2670:14
guideline [3] - 2581:22, 2581:24,
2624:6
guidelines [4] - 2622:10, 2622:17,
2622:19, 2627:2
guiding [1] - 2609:3
guilty [2] - 2701:12, 2725:18
gullable [2] - 2692:5, 2692:13
gun [1] - 2740:17
guy [4] - 2601:5, 2601:7, 2602:21,
2604:17
GX [2] - 2643:17, 2643:24
GX-2 [6] - 2645:12, 2645:14, 2645:18,
2645:19, 2646:7, 2647:18
H
HACK [1] - 2552:22
Hack [1] - 2679:15
hair [2] - 2623:3, 2627:4
half [4] - 2572:9, 2588:12, 2668:20,
2738:9
hand [9] - 2555:3, 2571:16, 2577:19,
2597:5, 2639:2, 2640:24, 2650:11,
2728:6, 2730:4
handed [5] - 2644:16, 2644:19,
2645:11, 2645:14, 2645:18
handle [2] - 2606:20, 2669:24
handled [1] - 2702:17
handling [1] - 2714:21
hands [1] - 2567:22
happy [1] - 2584:4
hard [2] - 2690:19, 2738:10
12
harm [2] - 2645:3, 2722:25
harms [1] - 2714:9
Harvard [3] - 2557:5, 2557:10
hashing [1] - 2739:14
head [1] - 2630:17
heads [2] - 2626:11, 2739:9
health [1] - 2560:20
hear [14] - 2618:22, 2661:14, 2662:15,
2666:17, 2669:14, 2669:18, 2669:19,
2669:21, 2670:18, 2672:10, 2675:7,
2691:23, 2727:24
heard [17] - 2567:10, 2584:20,
2586:11, 2602:5, 2627:21, 2663:15,
2665:19, 2672:1, 2693:6, 2694:20,
2695:10, 2710:19, 2710:21, 2714:11,
2718:11, 2718:21
hearing [1] - 2635:3
hearsay [7] - 2639:18, 2639:19,
2641:2, 2642:1, 2642:6, 2659:10,
2659:12
heart [3] - 2703:17, 2706:5, 2720:15
hedge [71] - 2559:25, 2560:4, 2560:9,
2562:2, 2565:12, 2565:25, 2575:4,
2575:6, 2575:12, 2575:13, 2575:15,
2575:24, 2576:18, 2576:20, 2576:23,
2577:4, 2577:11, 2587:20, 2587:21,
2598:9, 2599:16, 2599:18, 2599:21,
2599:23, 2599:25, 2600:3, 2600:4,
2601:8, 2601:10, 2601:24, 2602:24,
2604:13, 2604:25, 2605:10, 2605:12,
2605:14, 2605:23, 2606:3, 2606:15,
2607:12, 2608:10, 2608:18, 2611:15,
2612:4, 2612:13, 2613:6, 2613:10,
2613:11, 2613:22, 2613:24, 2614:5,
2614:7, 2614:8, 2614:11, 2631:23,
2632:1, 2677:19, 2678:14, 2683:3,
2691:13, 2691:15, 2694:25, 2695:11,
2695:13, 2703:1, 2703:8, 2706:6,
2708:4, 2710:12, 2711:19
Hedge [1] - 2694:14
hedges [21] - 2566:18, 2567:15,
2584:24, 2585:1, 2587:2, 2618:18,
2618:23, 2619:9, 2619:11, 2624:8,
2624:12, 2624:13, 2624:20, 2624:24,
2625:14, 2625:15, 2625:24, 2631:12,
2631:15, 2631:18, 2632:7
hedging [7] - 2565:3, 2565:10,
2565:23, 2566:21, 2584:21, 2585:2,
2632:3
held [7] - 2557:6, 2566:19, 2587:13,
2610:16, 2620:24, 2624:24, 2635:2
help [3] - 2571:5, 2597:2, 2629:16
helped [1] - 2614:18
helpful [3] - 2567:24, 2720:18,
2729:15
helping [1] - 2576:15
hereby [1] - 2664:7
High [19] - 2562:4, 2566:23, 2582:19,
2605:4, 2608:10, 2622:12, 2623:11,
2623:23, 2626:21, 2626:23, 2628:10,
2628:17, 2629:25, 2710:19, 2710:20,
2711:1, 2711:2
high [6] - 2564:5, 2567:17, 2568:15,
2572:11, 2626:19, 2627:3
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, FCRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
high-frequency [1] - 2627:3
High-Grade [14] - 2622:12, 2623:11,
2623:23, 2626:21, 2626:23, 2628:10,
2628:17, 2629:25, 2710:19, 2710:20,
2711:1, 2711:2
higher [3] - 2565:6, 2605:5, 2625:25
higher-rated [1] - 2625:25
highly [2] - 2694:25, 2695:7
himself [1] - 2660:19
hindsight [7] - 2585:19, 2586:16,
2586:21, 2589:3, 2632:24, 2691:20,
2691:24
Hindsight [2] - 2691:19, 2692:1
historically [1] - 2585:8
history [3] - 2605:25, 2606:2, 2713:24
hold [6] - 2676:2, 2677:4, 2679:18,
2688:3, 2689:8
holder [1] - 2594:13
holders [8] - 2567:5, 2567:6, 2567:7,
2586:3, 2586:14, 2593:10, 2594:15,
2599:5
holding [12] - 2614:1, 2615:20,
2687:3, 2687:17, 2688:1, 2688:2,
2690:6, 2711:12, 2711:13, 2717:15,
2717:16
holdings [2] - 2565:20, 2611:18
holds [1] - 2613:13
home [2] - 2636:8, 2648:8
honest [2] - 2728:6, 2730:7
Honor [160] - 2554:16, 2554:19,
2554:21, 2555:8, 2563:11, 2563:23,
2564:16, 2564:21, 2566:8, 2569:10,
2589:18, 2593:25, 2606:13, 2606:18,
2609:15, 2616:25, 2618:13, 2619:25,
2627:25, 2633:15, 2634:5, 2634:9,
2636:18, 2639:8, 2639:11, 2639:18,
2640:8, 2640:17, 2641:2, 2641:9,
2641:12, 2642:8, 2642:9, 2642:11,
2642:23, 2643:3, 2643:16, 2643:18,
2644:6, 2644:12, 2645:6, 2645:10,
2645:18, 2645:22, 2646:3, 2646:6,
2646:21, 2647:15, 2648:25, 2649:24,
2652:9, 2653:8, 2654:13, 2654:20,
2655:5, 2655:22, 2656:7, 2656:12,
2657:2, 2658:24, 2659:11, 2660:7,
2661:3, 2661:12, 2661:17, 2662:6,
2662:17, 2663:15, 2665:11, 2668:5,
2673:10, 2673:24, 2674:16, 2674:17,
2675:18, 2676:12, 2676:25, 2677:8,
2678:7, 2678:17, 2679:7, 2680:15,
2680:22, 2685:5, 2685:14, 2686:19,
2687:10, 2687:24, 2689:16, 2690:4,
2690:9, 2691:22, 2692:24, 2693:13,
2693:20, 2694:6, 2694:12, 2695:24,
2696:8, 2697:20, 2698:7, 2701:18,
2702:22, 2704:8, 2704:22, 2704:25,
2705:11, 2706:8, 2706:13, 2707:13,
2708:5, 2708:8, 2709:4, 2709:20,
2710:13, 2710:15, 2711:11, 2712:24,
2713:6, 2713:11, 2713:17, 2714:2,
2714:4, 2714:8, 2714:11, 2714:16,
2715:2, 2715:16, 2716:19, 2716:20,
2717:23, 2718:21, 2720:4, 2721:6,
2721:9, 2721:10, 2721:24, 2722:8,
2723:13, 2723:17, 2726:4, 2726:9,
2727:4, 2727:13, 2727:19, 2728:4,
2731:5, 2731:8, 2733:3, 2734:11,
2735:3, 2735:6, 2736:8, 2736:16,
2736:21, 2736:22, 2736:23, 2737:3,
2738:3, 2741:12
Honor's [3] - 2664:5, 2680:7, 2718:12
Honorable [2] - 2554:5, 2554:6
HONORABLE [1] - 2552:11
hope [1] - 2660:16
hopefully [8] - 2574:16, 2666:6,
2667:24, 2668:18, 2671:15, 2738:17,
2740:10, 2740:16
hour [9] - 2569:2, 2569:3, 2569:25,
2571:23, 2571:24, 2572:21, 2667:19,
2668:20, 2738:11
hours [9] - 2569:4, 2570:3, 2573:15,
2574:6, 2574:12, 2574:15, 2649:9,
2649:10, 2667:22
House [1] - 2557:19
house [10] - 2565:22, 2565:25,
2585:10, 2585:15, 2586:24, 2586:25,
2587:7, 2588:4, 2588:7, 2597:18
houses [3] - 2585:9, 2588:16, 2597:19
housing [14] - 2587:3, 2587:5,
2587:13, 2597:12, 2600:18, 2617:6,
2617:18, 2617:19, 2624:12, 2625:4,
2625:5, 2625:8, 2625:16
Howard [1] - 2602:20
Hubbard [18] - 2555:4, 2555:10,
2555:19, 2556:2, 2560:25, 2561:6,
2568:17, 2569:17, 2569:23, 2571:12,
2575:2, 2576:21, 2577:22, 2579:22,
2589:22, 2633:18, 2693:6, 2703:8
hundred [8] - 2560:15, 2566:23,
2566:24, 2572:21, 2623:8, 2638:14,
2638:25, 2725:17
hundreds [1] - 2573:14
hypothetical [1] - 2721:6
hypothetically [2] - 2578:11, 2682:25
I
idea [9] - 2570:10, 2573:1, 2573:5,
2573:25, 2574:4, 2618:11, 2622:24,
2696:7, 2696:23
identified [2] - 2674:22, 2710:1
identifies [1] - 2714:9
identify [3] - 2648:2, 2661:13, 2696:6
ignored [1] - 2674:1
ILENE [1] - 2552:17
Ilene [1] - 2554:14
Illinois [1] - 2557:9
image [1] - 2556:15
imagine [2] - 2657:18, 2721:21
impact [2] - 2600:19, 2712:6
impacted [1] - 2581:18
implications [1] - 2560:6
implied [1] - 2681:12
imploded [1] - 2618:24
important [10] - 2567:1, 2615:4,
2643:4, 2670:1, 2671:4, 2671:10,
2672:1, 2674:3, 2729:4, 2739:21
in-house [1] - 2565:25
inaccurate [1] - 2730:8
inadequate [5] - 2717:9, 2717:11,
2717:12, 2717:13, 2717:15
inadvertently [2] - 2650:19, 2674:14
inapplicable [1] - 2681:14
13
inappropriate [1] - 2701:22
Inc [1] - 2681:17
inclination [1] - 2686:8
inclined [2] - 2689:18, 2698:4
include [2] - 2626:9, 2717:4
included [5] - 2638:7, 2715:6, 2717:5,
2727:8, 2731:3
including [3] - 2567:21, 2567:24,
2698:21
inclusion [2] - 2708:7, 2713:18
income [2] - 2605:9, 2605:19
incomplete [1] - 2705:4
inconsistent [3] - 2693:24, 2723:6,
2724:16
incorporate [3] - 2673:18, 2729:1,
2737:13
incorporating [1] - 2739:13
incorrect [1] - 2593:18
increase [1] - 2732:23
increased [1] - 2623:4
increasing [1] - 2588:24
incur [2] - 2582:10, 2582:11
indeed [7] - 2566:7, 2566:9, 2572:16,
2582:21, 2595:1, 2619:10, 2623:13
independent [1] - 2732:3
index [3] - 2565:23, 2585:9, 2587:24
INDEX [1] - 2742:1
indexes [1] - 2588:3
indicate [1] - 2623:15
indicated [1] - 2713:13
indicates [1] - 2627:9
indication [1] - 2677:12
indictment [8] - 2590:9, 2590:12,
2590:21, 2591:2, 2698:25, 2721:16,
2723:18, 2724:17
individual [12] - 2584:22, 2587:22,
2603:5, 2605:14, 2607:21, 2611:13,
2613:13, 2613:21, 2617:22, 2624:3,
2705:10, 2705:20
individuals [3] - 2714:17, 2714:22,
2715:4
induce [1] - 2676:16
induced [13] - 2677:16, 2677:18,
2678:2, 2678:16, 2687:4, 2687:5,
2687:8, 2687:13, 2687:15, 2687:16,
2687:17, 2689:1, 2710:22
inducement [2] - 2678:12, 2678:23
industries [1] - 2559:13
infer [2] - 2594:17, 2605:24
inference [1] - 2624:18
inferring [1] - 2627:15
inflation [1] - 2558:18
inform [1] - 2649:12
information [67] - 2562:13, 2562:15,
2566:3, 2566:4, 2566:5, 2578:7,
2578:9, 2578:12, 2578:13, 2578:19,
2578:22, 2578:23, 2579:1, 2580:21,
2581:4, 2589:2, 2590:3, 2591:23,
2601:4, 2601:6, 2603:18, 2608:21,
2609:1, 2610:12, 2610:22, 2610:25,
2611:5, 2611:15, 2611:18, 2611:20,
2612:2, 2612:14, 2612:20, 2613:1,
2613:3, 2614:4, 2614:24, 2616:5,
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, FCRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
2616:9, 2616:10, 2616:15, 2617:3,
2617:4, 2617:9, 2617:11, 2624:3,
2630:15, 2630:24, 2631:6, 2702:6,
2702:23, 2703:1, 2703:2, 2703:3,
2703:7, 2703:9, 2703:11, 2704:15,
2705:24, 2707:14, 2707:25, 2708:1,
2708:2, 2718:17, 2739:22
infuse [1] - 2598:11
infused [1] - 2596:15
initial [3] - 2678:6, 2696:22, 2705:8
injected [1] - 2736:4
innocence [1] - 2669:10
inquire [2] - 2561:2, 2619:24
inquiry [2] - 2560:9, 2569:11
insider [12] - 2669:19, 2698:17,
2702:4, 2703:12, 2704:14, 2707:12,
2707:14, 2708:9, 2727:23, 2736:12,
2737:2, 2737:6
insiders [2] - 2736:16, 2737:8
insight [1] - 2614:17
insofar [1] - 2596:23
instance [9] - 2568:2, 2570:15,
2572:13, 2578:11, 2605:11, 2676:20,
2699:10, 2718:3, 2725:7
instances [1] - 2608:13
instead [2] - 2617:15, 2624:13
instincts [1] - 2681:20
institutional [1] - 2608:13
institutions [1] - 2600:19
instruct [7] - 2666:6, 2667:13,
2668:19, 2695:7, 2705:9, 2714:5,
2732:22
instructed [3] - 2668:22, 2715:15,
2737:1
instructing [1] - 2732:20
instruction [18] - 2675:1, 2675:3,
2675:10, 2675:16, 2697:1, 2705:8,
2713:2, 2714:20, 2714:21, 2717:25,
2728:10, 2728:19, 2729:2, 2731:16,
2732:11, 2732:18, 2732:19, 2737:16
Instruction [7] - 2675:3, 2694:12,
2694:20, 2729:1, 2729:8, 2729:16,
2730:21
instructions [14] - 2665:22, 2669:3,
2669:6, 2669:15, 2675:19, 2693:16,
2717:5, 2726:22, 2731:9, 2734:21,
2734:22, 2734:25, 2737:15, 2738:5
instrument [1] - 2565:9
instruments [2] - 2565:8, 2714:10
insufficient [1] - 2732:24
insurance [3] - 2576:10, 2576:12,
2576:14
intangibles [1] - 2607:11
intelligently [1] - 2666:6
intended [1] - 2692:13
intent [12] - 2717:2, 2721:12, 2721:14,
2721:18, 2729:2, 2729:17, 2732:22,
2732:25, 2734:1, 2734:2, 2734:8,
2737:19
intention [3] - 2713:4, 2732:10,
2732:18
interest [10] - 2559:9, 2559:14, 2562:3,
2567:5, 2586:3, 2627:13, 2628:16,
2628:25, 2657:6, 2678:13
interesting [3] - 2648:10, 2680:12,
2690:2
interests [3] - 2677:16, 2704:1,
2727:10
interfere [1] - 2671:12
interim [1] - 2637:21
internal [8] - 2562:18, 2622:9,
2622:16, 2622:18, 2624:6, 2627:1,
2629:22, 2719:3
Internal [1] - 2559:1
International [1] - 2558:25
Internet [1] - 2672:4
interrupt [1] - 2561:12
interrupting [1] - 2606:1
interstate [2] - 2656:15, 2736:2
intrastate [1] - 2657:6
introduced [1] - 2646:8
intuition [1] - 2689:23
intuitive [1] - 2689:19
invest [5] - 2683:5, 2693:2, 2693:5,
2693:10, 2695:13
investable [1] - 2693:21
invested [1] - 2610:21
investigate [1] - 2578:5
Investigation [1] - 2553:8
investing [7] - 2603:1, 2607:15,
2610:17, 2611:1, 2613:11, 2615:13,
2617:24
Investment [1] - 2577:12
investment [7] - 2600:8, 2603:8,
2605:4, 2608:17, 2691:16, 2717:8,
2717:14
investments [7] - 2587:20, 2607:10,
2677:22, 2689:6, 2694:22, 2694:23,
2717:10
investor [36] - 2584:16, 2592:15,
2599:12, 2602:22, 2602:24, 2603:3,
2603:13, 2604:20, 2604:25, 2605:8,
2605:13, 2606:3, 2606:5, 2606:25,
2607:1, 2607:3, 2612:3, 2612:16,
2612:17, 2612:18, 2613:12, 2613:13,
2615:10, 2693:18, 2693:22, 2693:25,
2694:13, 2694:25, 2695:4, 2695:8,
2710:19, 2710:21, 2711:2, 2722:4,
2722:13
investor's [3] - 2607:8, 2607:10,
2607:17
investors [85] - 2563:1, 2563:20,
2566:11, 2566:23, 2567:6, 2579:25,
2586:3, 2590:22, 2591:4, 2591:7,
2591:13, 2591:17, 2591:21, 2592:8,
2593:2, 2593:13, 2594:3, 2594:7,
2595:7, 2599:21, 2599:24, 2600:3,
2600:5, 2601:8, 2601:14, 2601:16,
2601:19, 2601:24, 2603:12, 2604:5,
2604:12, 2604:13, 2604:22, 2605:3,
2605:14, 2605:17, 2606:6, 2606:12,
2606:15, 2606:16, 2607:10, 2607:19,
2607:20, 2607:21, 2607:22, 2607:24,
2608:1, 2608:10, 2608:16, 2610:14,
2611:2, 2611:4, 2612:4, 2612:14,
2612:21, 2613:10, 2614:7, 2615:6,
2615:13, 2626:25, 2628:16, 2631:5,
2676:16, 2677:18, 2678:15, 2685:24,
2692:6, 2692:8, 2692:9, 2692:14,
2692:15, 2693:14, 2694:21, 2694:22,
2699:12, 2705:10, 2705:20, 2708:11,
2712:6, 2718:15, 2718:17, 2718:19,
2719:1, 2721:15, 2721:18
14
investors' [1] - 2592:19
involve [1] - 2575:12
involved [4] - 2629:12, 2638:2,
2715:4, 2733:1
involves [3] - 2574:7, 2681:7, 2704:16
ironed [1] - 2635:25
issue [50] - 2555:5, 2575:15, 2588:5,
2588:6, 2618:6, 2618:10, 2618:11,
2622:15, 2623:23, 2640:11, 2642:11,
2643:25, 2647:3, 2654:21, 2657:25,
2658:1, 2658:16, 2658:17, 2675:12,
2678:5, 2679:3, 2679:22, 2680:2,
2680:8, 2682:16, 2684:8, 2684:18,
2684:19, 2685:16, 2691:2, 2691:3,
2691:12, 2694:15, 2695:1, 2695:2,
2696:25, 2697:21, 2698:17, 2699:21,
2701:24, 2701:25, 2702:9, 2711:13,
2711:14, 2714:9, 2717:15, 2717:16,
2719:8, 2724:21, 2732:11
issued [1] - 2621:13
issues [16] - 2559:21, 2564:4,
2589:11, 2635:24, 2636:2, 2642:2,
2646:25, 2666:5, 2671:8, 2673:7,
2678:22, 2678:23, 2682:3, 2706:24,
2729:14, 2739:8
item [2] - 2644:15, 2739:15
items [4] - 2718:25, 2719:2, 2733:3,
2733:4
iterations [1] - 2558:9
itself [2] - 2589:12, 2682:15
J
J.P [2] - 2646:24, 2664:9
James [1] - 2554:13
JAMES [1] - 2552:16
January [5] - 2563:15, 2566:2, 2583:8,
2603:19, 2630:4
JAROLAW [1] - 2552:17
JAROSLAW [6] - 2648:21, 2648:25,
2649:2, 2649:8, 2649:11, 2649:25
Jaroslaw [5] - 2554:14, 2666:19,
2667:21, 2709:6, 2740:9
Jersey [8] - 2652:18, 2652:19,
2652:25, 2653:10, 2656:22, 2664:16,
2664:19, 2664:23
Jim [1] - 2569:19
job [6] - 2557:22, 2588:25, 2595:10,
2661:10, 2671:13, 2735:20
joins [1] - 2737:12
joint [3] - 2660:4, 2663:14, 2665:4
jot [1] - 2739:6
JUDGE [1] - 2552:11
judge [7] - 2564:22, 2567:21, 2567:25,
2568:13, 2577:19, 2667:1, 2683:7
Judge [8] - 2577:21, 2592:2, 2659:18,
2680:20, 2682:1, 2690:3, 2720:8
judge's [1] - 2665:22
judgement [2] - 2594:9, 2594:21
judges [1] - 2738:9
judgment [2] - 2622:4, 2690:17
July [3] - 2598:19, 2632:8, 2721:1
June [6] - 2586:7, 2593:1, 2598:19,
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, FCRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
2601:14, 2601:18, 2720:23
jurisdictional [3] - 2654:1, 2654:21,
2657:6
jurors [20] - 2562:10, 2568:7, 2585:7,
2589:6, 2613:9, 2620:9, 2635:10,
2636:6, 2636:16, 2640:7, 2648:6,
2650:2, 2650:11, 2657:21, 2661:13,
2667:1, 2669:12, 2671:13, 2711:6,
2740:7
JURY [1] - 2552:10
jury [75] - 2554:7, 2555:1, 2555:2,
2555:9, 2556:24, 2558:11, 2558:24,
2560:2, 2564:17, 2568:3, 2568:17,
2584:11, 2587:11, 2588:14, 2589:14,
2597:2, 2620:2, 2625:7, 2626:1,
2627:21, 2635:4, 2648:3, 2649:15,
2652:6, 2655:23, 2655:25, 2658:21,
2660:9, 2663:19, 2665:18, 2668:24,
2670:22, 2672:9, 2672:11, 2682:4,
2691:6, 2692:7, 2692:19, 2694:7,
2694:17, 2695:4, 2695:5, 2695:20,
2698:22, 2699:10, 2705:3, 2705:9,
2708:13, 2710:16, 2710:17, 2714:1,
2714:3, 2715:14, 2715:20, 2715:22,
2719:18, 2719:23, 2721:1, 2721:21,
2724:4, 2724:11, 2725:9, 2725:14,
2725:18, 2730:24, 2731:16, 2732:5,
2732:13, 2732:20, 2734:21, 2734:22,
2735:13, 2737:1, 2737:16, 2738:5
Jury [9] - 2552:11, 2555:11, 2620:5,
2620:13, 2637:8, 2660:13, 2672:16,
2675:2, 2729:7
jury's [2] - 2719:12, 2730:25
justify [1] - 2698:5
K
KEELEY [110] - 2552:22, 2638:13,
2638:23, 2639:1, 2639:4, 2639:11,
2639:23, 2640:8, 2644:6, 2644:12,
2644:16, 2644:24, 2645:10, 2645:14,
2645:17, 2645:21, 2646:3, 2646:6,
2646:21, 2647:21, 2660:7, 2662:23,
2673:10, 2673:18, 2674:3, 2674:6,
2674:17, 2692:17, 2692:24, 2693:4,
2693:13, 2693:20, 2693:23, 2694:2,
2694:6, 2697:20, 2698:7, 2698:9,
2709:20, 2709:24, 2710:8, 2711:11,
2711:17, 2712:13, 2712:24, 2713:3,
2713:6, 2713:10, 2713:17, 2713:20,
2714:2, 2714:16, 2714:20, 2715:2,
2715:11, 2715:14, 2715:18, 2715:24,
2716:5, 2716:19, 2717:3, 2717:13,
2717:18, 2717:20, 2717:22, 2718:3,
2718:5, 2718:10, 2721:9, 2721:11,
2721:14, 2721:23, 2722:1, 2722:8,
2722:16, 2722:23, 2723:4, 2723:11,
2723:13, 2725:24, 2726:4, 2726:9,
2726:18, 2726:21, 2727:1, 2727:4,
2727:13, 2727:19, 2727:22, 2728:1,
2731:5, 2731:8, 2732:10, 2733:3,
2733:5, 2733:10, 2733:14, 2733:16,
2733:22, 2734:24, 2735:3, 2735:6,
2735:12, 2736:7, 2736:22, 2738:3,
2738:24, 2739:12, 2739:19, 2741:11
Keeley [4] - 2554:17, 2638:22,
2640:12, 2728:18
keep [9] - 2574:16, 2618:6, 2671:18,
2672:5, 2672:6, 2689:10, 2730:11,
2740:7
keeping [2] - 2583:9, 2694:17
keeps [1] - 2727:17
Kennedy [1] - 2557:10
kept [1] - 2730:6
key [2] - 2558:15, 2690:3
Kim [1] - 2664:9
kind [3] - 2577:19, 2612:14, 2623:15
kinds [2] - 2621:7, 2621:10
Klaus [1] - 2602:20
KLIO [1] - 2621:18
knowing [4] - 2610:19, 2633:24,
2717:1, 2732:18
knowledge [3] - 2569:22, 2612:9,
2664:11
known [8] - 2566:5, 2585:16, 2585:21,
2591:21, 2611:19, 2617:23, 2617:24,
2632:22
Korman [1] - 2720:8
L
lack [3] - 2627:13, 2630:1, 2688:10
lad [1] - 2708:1
laid [1] - 2606:7
landscape [1] - 2686:6
language [29] - 2567:22, 2676:5,
2679:8, 2680:25, 2686:5, 2686:12,
2690:16, 2692:11, 2710:4, 2712:23,
2713:2, 2713:18, 2717:5, 2717:25,
2722:1, 2722:12, 2722:18, 2724:2,
2724:17, 2726:11, 2726:21, 2727:7,
2730:13, 2730:16, 2730:17, 2730:21,
2734:14, 2736:5
lap [1] - 2668:13
lapping [1] - 2668:7
large [10] - 2562:12, 2566:22, 2575:19,
2576:13, 2585:20, 2600:19, 2601:15,
2627:4, 2636:13, 2720:13
largess [1] - 2627:24
last [17] - 2563:25, 2599:5, 2639:23,
2645:8, 2647:19, 2647:23, 2649:16,
2669:23, 2692:4, 2709:16, 2726:11,
2727:2, 2727:20, 2733:3, 2733:4,
2733:15, 2740:21
late [8] - 2629:15, 2726:11, 2727:20,
2729:6, 2738:18, 2740:7, 2740:8,
2741:3
Latin [2] - 2581:1, 2581:3
latitude [4] - 2568:14, 2568:20,
2619:25, 2627:23
latter [1] - 2624:17
laude [1] - 2557:2
laundry [2] - 2673:13, 2674:14
lAURIE [1] - 2553:6
Laurie [2] - 2674:12, 2679:16
law [46] - 2593:24, 2617:15, 2638:10,
2652:20, 2655:11, 2665:22, 2666:7,
2668:19, 2669:9, 2669:14, 2669:17,
2670:8, 2671:1, 2677:2, 2677:10,
2679:21, 2679:23, 2682:3, 2682:18,
2684:9, 2686:1, 2688:23, 2689:20,
2689:24, 2690:6, 2691:8, 2692:22,
2693:9, 2695:23, 2696:10, 2697:11, 15
2697:21, 2698:1, 2704:21, 2707:15,
2707:23, 2708:5, 2709:18, 2714:10,
2716:25, 2718:7, 2731:20, 2732:24,
2734:11, 2737:2
law-related [1] - 2698:1
laws [2] - 2689:14, 2690:5
lawyering [1] - 2700:7
lawyers [5] - 2574:19, 2589:13,
2667:1, 2668:22, 2700:4
lay [4] - 2567:24, 2584:11, 2686:6,
2694:14
lead [2] - 2594:11, 2645:5
learn [3] - 2588:15, 2606:24, 2612:22
learned [1] - 2588:19
least [5] - 2600:7, 2627:11, 2685:3,
2694:22, 2738:25
leave [2] - 2731:1, 2740:18
leaves [1] - 2620:6
leaving [1] - 2724:7
left [5] - 2569:23, 2647:13, 2668:8,
2697:2, 2715:22
legal [8] - 2605:25, 2606:2, 2615:15,
2666:5, 2666:8, 2666:9, 2679:3,
2719:23
lend [2] - 2588:12, 2594:15
lender [2] - 2586:5, 2588:12
lenders [13] - 2567:2, 2567:9, 2567:16,
2586:7, 2586:8, 2586:13, 2588:9,
2590:5, 2596:17, 2597:6, 2598:2,
2599:13, 2627:3
lending [7] - 2585:24, 2596:17,
2598:13, 2598:15, 2598:22, 2599:4,
2628:18
lends [1] - 2700:6
lengthy [2] - 2570:21, 2667:11
lens [3] - 2585:19, 2586:20, 2589:3
Leslie [2] - 2654:23, 2655:14
less [4] - 2585:13, 2585:14, 2606:20,
2667:20
lessons [2] - 2588:15, 2588:19
letter [4] - 2652:7, 2654:5, 2657:9,
2689:25
level [8] - 2564:5, 2567:17, 2568:15,
2576:22, 2581:24, 2605:15, 2605:16,
2626:4
levels [1] - 2581:22
Leverage [3] - 2621:15, 2623:19,
2628:22
leverage [8] - 2565:5, 2565:7, 2567:10,
2588:10, 2588:11, 2607:1, 2607:4,
2607:5
Leveraged [2] - 2562:4, 2566:25
leveraged [4] - 2565:3, 2584:16,
2585:22, 2598:11
liability [1] - 2695:22
lib [1] - 2670:11
lie [2] - 2689:20, 2711:23
lied [2] - 2689:4, 2711:20
lies [1] - 2703:18
Life [1] - 2587:13
life [1] - 2621:12
light [1] - 2664:5
lights [4] - 2622:11, 2623:14, 2623:20,
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, FCRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
2629:21
likely [2] - 2580:24, 2608:25
likewise [5] - 2558:18, 2665:11,
2673:24, 2674:11, 2717:9
limit [1] - 2654:2
limited [3] - 2578:7, 2681:11, 2681:21
limiting [3] - 2674:25, 2675:3, 2675:10
limits [2] - 2604:23, 2740:1
Line [4] - 2704:9, 2713:9, 2730:3,
2736:12
line [8] - 2572:7, 2589:20, 2599:5,
2617:13, 2617:17, 2735:24, 2736:6,
2736:11
liner [1] - 2640:4
lines [7] - 2592:23, 2713:10, 2722:9,
2728:5, 2728:20, 2733:10, 2733:16
links [1] - 2559:21
liquid [2] - 2594:24, 2594:25
liquidate [1] - 2581:25
liquidated [1] - 2582:10
liquidity [19] - 2562:19, 2564:4,
2603:3, 2621:24, 2622:3, 2622:4,
2622:8, 2622:12, 2622:13, 2622:17,
2622:19, 2623:6, 2623:8, 2623:10,
2623:23, 2627:1, 2628:24, 2629:20,
2630:1
Liquidity [1] - 2628:17
list [9] - 2577:22, 2650:8, 2650:10,
2650:15, 2665:3, 2668:25, 2673:13,
2674:14, 2736:4
listed [2] - 2665:4, 2716:1
listen [3] - 2665:20, 2665:22, 2672:9
listening [2] - 2660:20, 2666:9
listens [1] - 2670:2
litigation [1] - 2578:20
live [4] - 2575:15, 2594:14, 2610:4,
2690:16
LLP [2] - 2552:19, 2553:2
loans [1] - 2621:8
loathe [1] - 2738:19
location [1] - 2571:6
logged [1] - 2729:13
look [39] - 2565:20, 2577:15, 2584:14,
2586:20, 2594:6, 2597:16, 2597:18,
2607:19, 2607:21, 2610:23, 2617:9,
2617:10, 2622:25, 2624:4, 2638:8,
2643:12, 2643:20, 2644:13, 2644:14,
2644:17, 2649:4, 2655:1, 2655:10,
2658:19, 2660:5, 2670:21, 2672:3,
2678:19, 2681:15, 2690:23, 2696:9,
2708:14, 2713:25, 2727:18, 2729:15,
2730:17, 2730:20, 2735:5, 2735:19
looked [9] - 2566:17, 2597:18, 2633:2,
2644:20, 2675:2, 2675:9, 2678:18,
2696:15, 2729:5
looking [23] - 2581:7, 2581:8, 2586:16,
2593:7, 2603:15, 2607:25, 2609:2,
2609:4, 2609:7, 2610:22, 2610:24,
2626:3, 2626:9, 2652:12, 2665:12,
2665:15, 2670:23, 2673:12, 2675:8,
2685:20, 2704:12, 2713:8, 2722:8
looks [1] - 2595:4
lose [2] - 2584:19, 2728:7
losses [6] - 2582:10, 2582:11,
2606:15, 2606:21, 2607:8, 2607:16
LOTO [1] - 2605:10
lottery [1] - 2695:12
lower [3] - 2607:16, 2621:4, 2625:24
lulled [1] - 2685:25
lunch [11] - 2635:10, 2635:19,
2636:16, 2637:4, 2644:14, 2644:17,
2647:14, 2660:16, 2660:22, 2740:10
Luncheon [1] - 2650:25
luncheon [1] - 2640:14
lunchtime [5] - 2638:4, 2638:11,
2643:21, 2644:1, 2644:3
luxury [3] - 2678:20, 2686:6, 2733:6
lying [1] - 2685:24
M
ma'am [1] - 2620:22
machine [1] - 2736:4
magnified [1] - 2585:14
Mail [1] - 2643:4
mail [32] - 2553:13, 2579:12, 2579:14,
2579:17, 2579:19, 2627:11, 2627:16,
2628:20, 2633:11, 2642:22, 2643:3,
2643:11, 2643:16, 2643:23, 2644:18,
2645:11, 2645:17, 2646:15, 2652:13,
2656:14, 2659:3, 2659:5, 2661:16,
2662:3, 2662:4, 2664:8, 2664:12,
2664:14, 2664:21, 2725:3, 2725:9,
2739:6
Mailine [1] - 2646:16
mails [19] - 2579:6, 2579:9, 2627:8,
2628:10, 2628:12, 2628:15, 2633:2,
2633:10, 2633:18, 2633:21, 2640:23,
2652:17, 2663:2, 2663:3, 2664:16,
2736:3, 2736:9
main [3] - 2705:6, 2708:6, 2708:9
maintain [1] - 2732:23
majority [1] - 2616:4
manage [1] - 2671:22
managed [5] - 2562:25, 2563:12,
2564:25, 2580:1, 2694:23
management [4] - 2556:14, 2564:4,
2594:10, 2629:23
Management [1] - 2664:18
manager [13] - 2594:21, 2613:1,
2613:11, 2615:2, 2615:12, 2616:19,
2617:10, 2617:23, 2633:4, 2722:22,
2722:24, 2737:2, 2737:6
managers [21] - 2581:11, 2586:2,
2598:10, 2611:21, 2612:10, 2612:21,
2612:25, 2613:4, 2613:24, 2614:5,
2615:1, 2617:7, 2618:7, 2626:11,
2629:1, 2630:11, 2630:17, 2705:22,
2736:15, 2736:19, 2737:7
mandate [3] - 2603:8, 2603:9, 2603:10
manifests [1] - 2685:3
Manor [1] - 2681:9
map [1] - 2671:15
March [13] - 2563:15, 2566:2, 2579:10,
2585:2, 2585:17, 2588:8, 2624:14,
2625:1, 2626:22, 2627:8, 2628:5,
2628:10, 2629:11
Margaret [1] - 2554:17
mARGARET [1] - 2552:22
margin [2] - 2627:5, 2733:14
markdown [1] - 2594:11
marked [10] - 2658:22, 2661:7,
16
2661:22, 2662:7, 2663:7, 2742:23,
2742:25, 2743:2, 2743:4, 2743:6
Market [1] - 2560:8
market [30] - 2558:7, 2558:18,
2560:10, 2566:5, 2579:18, 2581:17,
2584:25, 2585:16, 2585:20, 2587:4,
2587:13, 2594:10, 2594:23, 2595:4,
2595:19, 2597:12, 2599:7, 2600:18,
2604:5, 2614:16, 2616:8, 2616:13,
2617:18, 2624:3, 2624:5, 2625:1,
2625:20, 2626:14
marketing [5] - 2639:12, 2644:18,
2644:20, 2661:18, 2661:19
marketplace [1] - 2630:12
markets [15] - 2560:19, 2565:11,
2576:3, 2576:10, 2586:11, 2600:23,
2600:25, 2604:8, 2604:10, 2605:16,
2609:8, 2610:25, 2611:3, 2626:18
Markit [2] - 2617:5, 2625:13
MARKIT [1] - 2617:6
MARYANN [1] - 2553:6
Masters [1] - 2557:4
material [20] - 2609:24, 2683:2,
2691:6, 2702:5, 2704:15, 2706:19,
2707:3, 2716:4, 2716:21, 2717:8,
2717:12, 2717:14, 2719:6, 2719:13,
2719:14, 2719:15, 2720:6, 2731:20,
2732:1, 2732:15
materiality [14] - 2679:24, 2680:2,
2680:24, 2691:4, 2691:12, 2692:4,
2715:15, 2715:18, 2715:25, 2716:6,
2716:10, 2716:13, 2719:8, 2737:20
materialize [1] - 2584:2
materials [1] - 2562:20
matter [11] - 2569:5, 2570:14, 2570:15,
2572:4, 2596:22, 2692:12, 2707:22,
2731:20, 2732:24, 2733:17, 2737:2
mattered [1] - 2591:21
matters [7] - 2559:6, 2575:4, 2629:16,
2666:8, 2674:22, 2695:2, 2735:18
Matthew [4] - 2553:3, 2554:9, 2554:24,
2664:22
MATTHEW [1] - 2552:7
maximize [1] - 2586:2
maximizing [1] - 2567:5
MBA [1] - 2556:21
McGarrigal's [1] - 2715:7
MCGOVERN [69] - 2552:16, 2554:12,
2613:17, 2614:21, 2616:2, 2618:2,
2618:4, 2619:13, 2619:19, 2627:17,
2634:3, 2636:5, 2639:8, 2648:19,
2649:21, 2650:24, 2652:9, 2652:17,
2653:8, 2653:14, 2653:17, 2653:21,
2654:13, 2654:23, 2655:2, 2655:5,
2656:3, 2656:20, 2656:25, 2657:2,
2657:16, 2657:20, 2660:10, 2663:14,
2663:18, 2664:7, 2665:2, 2665:15,
2675:8, 2678:17, 2678:21, 2696:8,
2696:13, 2696:19, 2697:15, 2698:24,
2699:4, 2699:10, 2709:4, 2709:9,
2709:12, 2714:8, 2721:19, 2723:21,
2724:2, 2724:14, 2724:24, 2725:6,
2725:14, 2725:21, 2726:5, 2731:21,
2731:24, 2734:7, 2734:10, 2740:11,
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, FCRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
2740:24, 2741:1, 2741:12
McGovern [22] - 2554:13, 2561:3,
2569:13, 2569:16, 2569:19, 2577:21,
2589:18, 2589:19, 2596:1, 2606:18,
2609:15, 2610:9, 2629:4, 2629:6,
2657:12, 2660:3, 2663:13, 2667:15,
2668:10, 2695:12, 2742:10, 2742:14
mean [29] - 2558:12, 2565:4, 2567:25,
2571:4, 2580:20, 2583:16, 2583:22,
2592:22, 2595:18, 2597:23, 2604:2,
2613:4, 2617:14, 2619:21, 2622:9,
2624:8, 2637:15, 2648:13, 2689:10,
2691:25, 2703:10, 2704:3, 2712:3,
2716:12, 2718:7, 2719:16, 2719:22,
2731:25, 2741:4
meaning [1] - 2558:13
means [19] - 2565:19, 2586:9,
2589:23, 2593:9, 2593:16, 2594:1,
2594:9, 2594:21, 2607:3, 2607:7,
2613:22, 2626:15, 2660:19, 2665:18,
2666:25, 2667:25, 2708:23, 2730:14,
2730:22
meant [3] - 2563:7, 2578:3, 2624:10
meantime [1] - 2648:1
meet [7] - 2570:17, 2594:10, 2596:18,
2623:8, 2630:1, 2642:6, 2727:9
meeting [1] - 2624:6
meetings [2] - 2574:13, 2574:14
member [1] - 2701:9
members [4] - 2617:24, 2620:2,
2665:18, 2686:17
memoranda [1] - 2657:9
memorandum [2] - 2673:19, 2708:10
mention [5] - 2590:13, 2592:6,
2667:23, 2679:10, 2720:24
mentioned [6] - 2560:11, 2626:21,
2637:2, 2646:17, 2667:6, 2669:14
mentions [1] - 2723:6
merchandise [1] - 2600:5
mere [1] - 2704:2
mesh [1] - 2710:24
message [1] - 2699:12
met [6] - 2574:19, 2591:22, 2594:23,
2622:16, 2627:5, 2727:9
methods [3] - 2624:16, 2695:17,
2695:21
might [33] - 2569:23, 2574:2, 2583:2,
2583:6, 2583:10, 2587:21, 2590:1,
2590:7, 2590:18, 2595:21, 2600:11,
2602:25, 2603:5, 2603:12, 2603:16,
2603:17, 2612:19, 2612:25, 2613:15,
2614:11, 2614:14, 2615:16, 2632:3,
2633:5, 2637:22, 2681:25, 2691:15,
2696:16, 2699:13, 2728:1, 2738:24
million [10] - 2566:23, 2566:24,
2599:2, 2601:20, 2605:1, 2683:5,
2694:22, 2694:23, 2720:22, 2725:17
Milwaukee [1] - 2600:21
mincing [1] - 2583:25
mind [13] - 2565:25, 2583:9, 2603:12,
2633:9, 2640:23, 2641:13, 2641:15,
2642:2, 2643:5, 2643:7, 2646:14,
2672:6, 2723:9
mindful [2] - 2690:14, 2740:4
mine [1] - 2577:18
minimal [1] - 2605:4
ministerial [1] - 2636:1
minutes [4] - 2597:9, 2635:6, 2637:13,
2667:19
mischaracterized [1] - 2594:18
mischaracterizes [1] - 2619:2
misleading [4] - 2591:6, 2706:24,
2718:6, 2718:8
misled [2] - 2590:22, 2694:8
mismatched [1] - 2626:4
mispriced [1] - 2626:16
misrepresentation [13] - 2683:21,
2684:7, 2688:17, 2699:13, 2710:19,
2710:22, 2711:9, 2712:15, 2717:12,
2718:6, 2719:13, 2719:14, 2720:23
misrepresentations [9] - 2678:16,
2683:1, 2685:13, 2688:21, 2689:10,
2710:25, 2712:5, 2717:6
misrepresented [1] - 2677:22
missed [1] - 2733:14
missing [2] - 2665:3, 2687:22
mission [1] - 2718:13
missions [1] - 2739:22
misspoke [1] - 2729:7
misstatements [3] - 2706:20, 2707:3,
2716:21
mistake [1] - 2587:6
mistaken [1] - 2610:12
mock [1] - 2574:21
model [13] - 2558:5, 2558:8, 2558:11,
2558:13, 2558:16, 2565:19, 2565:20,
2566:1, 2588:4, 2609:5, 2617:21,
2625:3
modeling [1] - 2566:14
models [1] - 2602:16
modify [1] - 2704:18
moment [1] - 2587:9
moments [2] - 2637:3, 2637:16
Monday [11] - 2649:18, 2650:5,
2668:14, 2668:16, 2668:18, 2671:5,
2738:16, 2739:20, 2740:6, 2740:21,
2741:10
monetary [3] - 2559:7, 2685:19,
2685:22
money [43] - 2560:19, 2566:12,
2566:22, 2567:16, 2584:17, 2584:19,
2587:2, 2593:2, 2593:14, 2594:2,
2594:3, 2596:16, 2598:11, 2598:14,
2598:15, 2599:24, 2604:4, 2605:10,
2607:12, 2607:15, 2619:8, 2623:16,
2625:16, 2625:22, 2626:25, 2629:12,
2629:16, 2631:15, 2631:17, 2631:20,
2631:22, 2631:25, 2632:18, 2688:6,
2689:9, 2693:11, 2693:19, 2694:1,
2694:15, 2695:10, 2702:16, 2728:7
monitoring [1] - 2740:20
month [8] - 2562:18, 2563:14,
2581:14, 2583:4, 2583:7, 2590:4,
2603:19, 2611:18
monthly [1] - 2615:5
months [5] - 2580:22, 2581:14,
2584:14, 2623:18, 2664:18
Morgan [2] - 2646:24, 2664:10
morning [26] - 2554:16, 2554:19,
2554:21, 2554:22, 2555:2, 2555:12,
2569:17, 2569:18, 2619:20, 2650:5,
2666:15, 2668:16, 2668:19, 2672:14, 17
2693:6, 2733:9, 2738:13, 2738:17,
2738:18, 2739:11, 2739:25, 2740:6,
2740:12, 2740:13, 2740:18, 2740:22
mortgage [3] - 2584:23, 2587:16,
2625:20
mortgaged [1] - 2565:8
mortgages [8] - 2565:12, 2584:17,
2584:22, 2587:13, 2587:15, 2587:25,
2614:15, 2617:19
most [8] - 2574:14, 2589:20, 2602:3,
2602:7, 2602:10, 2602:12, 2622:15,
2669:9
mostly [1] - 2709:5
motion [11] - 2652:12, 2653:5, 2654:9,
2654:12, 2673:16, 2673:20, 2676:15,
2682:5, 2696:2, 2710:15, 2736:24
motions [3] - 2736:17, 2737:3, 2737:4
motive [4] - 2632:3, 2675:12, 2733:25,
2734:5
mouth [2] - 2613:5, 2699:14
move [17] - 2588:6, 2597:9, 2598:5,
2606:11, 2606:14, 2606:22, 2609:18,
2610:9, 2610:13, 2627:17, 2628:16,
2652:6, 2658:19, 2659:24, 2665:10,
2695:16, 2696:24
moved [3] - 2585:9, 2625:22, 2710:13
movement [4] - 2565:25, 2585:14,
2587:6, 2624:11
moving [2] - 2648:5, 2739:2
MR [157] - 2554:12, 2554:17, 2561:3,
2569:13, 2569:16, 2577:21, 2589:18,
2589:19, 2596:1, 2606:13, 2606:18,
2609:15, 2613:17, 2614:21, 2615:9,
2616:2, 2618:2, 2618:4, 2618:13,
2618:20, 2619:2, 2619:13, 2619:19,
2620:1, 2627:17, 2629:6, 2634:3,
2634:9, 2634:12, 2635:6, 2635:12,
2635:17, 2636:1, 2636:5, 2636:11,
2636:17, 2637:14, 2639:8, 2648:19,
2649:21, 2649:22, 2649:24, 2650:23,
2650:24, 2652:9, 2652:17, 2653:8,
2653:14, 2653:17, 2653:21, 2653:23,
2654:4, 2654:13, 2654:20, 2654:23,
2655:2, 2655:5, 2656:3, 2656:12,
2656:20, 2656:25, 2657:2, 2657:11,
2657:16, 2657:20, 2660:2, 2660:10,
2661:3, 2661:6, 2661:9, 2661:12,
2661:15, 2661:17, 2661:20, 2661:25,
2662:3, 2662:6, 2662:13, 2663:14,
2663:18, 2664:7, 2665:2, 2665:9,
2665:15, 2668:5, 2673:15, 2674:7,
2674:16, 2675:8, 2676:12, 2678:17,
2678:21, 2679:7, 2679:13, 2679:15,
2680:7, 2680:14, 2680:22, 2686:16,
2686:19, 2686:23, 2687:3, 2687:7,
2687:10, 2687:14, 2688:2, 2688:8,
2688:13, 2690:4, 2690:8, 2696:8,
2696:13, 2696:19, 2697:15, 2698:24,
2699:4, 2699:10, 2702:22, 2703:6,
2704:25, 2705:2, 2705:4, 2705:6,
2705:17, 2706:7, 2708:4, 2709:4,
2709:9, 2709:12, 2709:15, 2714:8,
2718:21, 2718:24, 2719:8, 2720:3,
2721:5, 2721:10, 2721:19, 2723:21,
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, FCRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
2724:2, 2724:14, 2724:24, 2725:6,
2725:14, 2725:21, 2726:5, 2731:21,
2731:24, 2734:7, 2734:10, 2734:19,
2740:11, 2740:24, 2741:1, 2741:12,
2742:10, 2742:14
Mr. Sinclair [98] - 2639:7, 2639:15,
2639:18, 2639:22, 2640:1, 2640:3,
2640:5, 2640:10, 2641:1, 2641:2,
2641:7, 2641:16, 2641:19, 2642:11,
2642:15, 2642:22, 2643:23, 2645:4,
2646:5, 2646:11, 2646:15, 2647:3,
2647:10, 2655:12, 2655:14, 2655:21,
2656:6, 2657:15, 2659:3, 2659:7,
2659:10, 2659:16, 2659:20, 2660:5,
2664:2, 2676:20, 2676:25, 2677:2,
2677:8, 2678:6, 2684:20, 2684:22,
2684:25, 2685:5, 2685:14, 2685:23,
2686:4, 2687:23, 2688:5, 2689:3,
2689:12, 2689:15, 2689:25, 2690:22,
2690:25, 2691:22, 2691:25, 2695:23,
2697:3, 2702:3, 2704:8, 2704:11,
2704:22, 2706:13, 2706:18, 2707:4,
2707:12, 2707:24, 2710:6, 2712:2,
2712:10, 2713:7, 2715:5, 2716:17,
2720:9, 2720:13, 2720:17, 2720:21,
2721:20, 2722:21, 2723:16, 2729:13,
2730:2, 2730:6, 2730:12, 2734:3,
2735:23, 2735:24, 2736:2, 2736:6,
2736:11, 2736:14, 2736:21, 2736:23,
2737:1, 2738:19, 2739:2, 2739:17
MS [230] - 2554:20, 2555:3, 2555:8,
2555:19, 2556:5, 2556:7, 2560:25,
2561:5, 2564:8, 2564:16, 2568:13,
2568:21, 2568:22, 2569:10, 2590:24,
2618:14, 2619:24, 2620:16, 2620:18,
2627:20, 2627:25, 2628:3, 2629:3,
2633:15, 2634:5, 2635:23, 2636:18,
2637:17, 2638:5, 2638:13, 2638:15,
2638:23, 2639:1, 2639:4, 2639:11,
2639:23, 2640:8, 2640:15, 2640:17,
2640:21, 2641:11, 2641:21, 2642:8,
2642:12, 2642:17, 2642:24, 2643:3,
2643:10, 2643:16, 2643:21, 2644:5,
2644:6, 2644:10, 2644:12, 2644:16,
2644:24, 2645:10, 2645:14, 2645:15,
2645:17, 2645:21, 2646:3, 2646:6,
2646:21, 2647:15, 2647:17, 2647:21,
2647:25, 2648:21, 2648:25, 2649:2,
2649:8, 2649:11, 2649:25, 2657:4,
2657:24, 2658:2, 2658:6, 2658:8,
2658:11, 2658:15, 2658:17, 2658:24,
2659:6, 2659:13, 2660:1, 2660:7,
2662:17, 2662:21, 2662:23, 2662:25,
2663:3, 2663:6, 2663:20, 2663:24,
2664:4, 2665:11, 2673:10, 2673:18,
2673:24, 2674:3, 2674:6, 2674:11,
2674:17, 2675:18, 2679:16, 2682:8,
2682:11, 2682:14, 2683:9, 2683:16,
2683:19, 2683:21, 2684:2, 2684:6,
2684:15, 2684:17, 2688:14, 2692:17,
2692:24, 2693:4, 2693:13, 2693:20,
2693:23, 2694:2, 2694:6, 2694:11,
2694:19, 2695:1, 2697:20, 2698:7,
2698:9, 2699:20, 2700:2, 2700:8,
2700:16, 2700:24, 2701:2, 2701:14,
2701:17, 2709:20, 2709:24, 2710:8,
2711:11, 2711:17, 2712:13, 2712:24,
2713:3, 2713:6, 2713:10, 2713:17,
2713:20, 2714:2, 2714:16, 2714:20,
2715:2, 2715:11, 2715:14, 2715:18,
2715:24, 2716:5, 2716:19, 2717:3,
2717:13, 2717:18, 2717:20, 2717:22,
2718:3, 2718:5, 2718:10, 2721:9,
2721:11, 2721:14, 2721:23, 2722:1,
2722:8, 2722:16, 2722:23, 2723:4,
2723:11, 2723:13, 2725:24, 2726:4,
2726:9, 2726:18, 2726:21, 2727:1,
2727:4, 2727:13, 2727:19, 2727:22,
2728:1, 2728:3, 2728:13, 2728:18,
2728:23, 2729:7, 2729:16, 2729:21,
2729:23, 2730:15, 2730:20, 2731:5,
2731:8, 2731:14, 2731:19, 2732:10,
2732:17, 2733:3, 2733:5, 2733:10,
2733:14, 2733:16, 2733:22, 2734:24,
2735:3, 2735:6, 2735:12, 2736:7,
2736:22, 2737:11, 2737:19, 2737:24,
2738:3, 2738:24, 2739:12, 2739:19,
2741:11, 2742:8, 2742:12
multiple [1] - 2725:25
multiplicity [1] - 2710:14
must [6] - 2703:24, 2703:25, 2716:21,
2717:6, 2729:19, 2730:23
mutual [2] - 2560:5, 2613:8
N
N.W [1] - 2552:20
Naftalin [3] - 2681:4, 2682:9, 2683:13
NAFTALIN [1] - 2681:4
name [5] - 2555:25, 2569:19, 2612:3,
2646:17, 2695:10
named [1] - 2646:16
names [2] - 2588:3, 2679:14
nation's [1] - 2559:4
National [4] - 2557:14, 2560:7,
2588:19, 2681:16
nature [7] - 2561:15, 2656:6, 2662:11,
2677:22, 2698:19, 2703:14, 2732:14
near [1] - 2667:11
necessarily [6] - 2576:18, 2594:8,
2629:18, 2646:13, 2700:18, 2741:2
necessary [5] - 2652:8, 2696:10,
2726:24, 2735:17, 2738:22
need [27] - 2555:15, 2565:1, 2565:19,
2581:3, 2593:21, 2599:21, 2599:23,
2604:25, 2622:11, 2623:14, 2635:24,
2636:9, 2648:6, 2653:19, 2653:20,
2659:23, 2670:3, 2671:6, 2671:9,
2674:6, 2680:23, 2683:10, 2699:7,
2700:14, 2705:19, 2719:1
needs [3] - 2603:3, 2680:5, 2708:25
negative [5] - 2702:23, 2702:25,
2703:2, 2703:7, 2703:10
neglect [1] - 2703:10
negotiation [1] - 2627:15
neighborhood [1] - 2570:4
net [11] - 2562:17, 2605:1, 2605:9,
2607:10, 2625:15, 2625:17, 2632:4,
2632:11, 2693:20, 2725:10, 2725:17
networth [1] - 2605:19
never [6] - 2569:21, 2595:8, 2595:10,
2595:13, 2631:5, 2734:4
NEW [1] - 2552:1
18
new [7] - 2563:20, 2566:11, 2566:12,
2601:4, 2622:1, 2623:16, 2628:24
New [16] - 2552:5, 2552:14, 2552:15,
2553:4, 2554:4, 2569:20, 2652:18,
2652:19, 2652:25, 2653:10, 2656:22,
2664:16, 2664:17, 2664:19, 2664:23
next [26] - 2555:6, 2555:13, 2555:18,
2556:19, 2556:22, 2575:22, 2580:14,
2581:17, 2581:21, 2589:7, 2603:13,
2611:23, 2614:19, 2615:22, 2633:16,
2634:11, 2634:14, 2636:20, 2648:9,
2651:1, 2661:24, 2671:11, 2675:15,
2702:15, 2708:22, 2738:5
nexus [8] - 2652:8, 2652:19, 2654:1,
2654:21, 2656:15, 2657:6, 2680:9,
2684:11
nice [3] - 2650:8, 2666:1, 2731:12
night [5] - 2709:16, 2726:11, 2727:2,
2727:20, 2729:6
NINA [1] - 2553:5
Nine [2] - 2653:13, 2653:14
nine [2] - 2653:15, 2681:17
nobody [6] - 2593:2, 2593:13, 2594:2,
2654:2, 2666:20, 2719:5
Nodding) [1] - 2692:17
non [3] - 2590:20, 2646:16, 2725:10
non-attorney [1] - 2590:20
non-defendants [1] - 2646:16
non-real [1] - 2725:10
none [2] - 2594:3, 2633:3
nonetheless [1] - 2625:8
nonpublic [19] - 2616:10, 2616:15,
2616:24, 2617:2, 2617:11, 2617:13,
2702:6, 2702:8, 2702:20, 2702:23,
2702:25, 2703:1, 2703:3, 2703:4,
2703:7, 2703:9, 2703:11, 2704:15,
2705:24
nonrated [1] - 2621:4
normal [1] - 2655:3
North [1] - 2557:8
Nos [1] - 2737:16
note [5] - 2554:10, 2592:17, 2627:2,
2698:2, 2733:14
noted [2] - 2592:15, 2601:12
nothing [7] - 2586:13, 2605:15,
2606:19, 2623:14, 2627:6, 2662:9,
2719:12
notice [1] - 2708:11
November [3] - 2552:7, 2664:24,
2741:15
nuances [1] - 2597:1
number [15] - 2562:11, 2570:17,
2570:21, 2573:4, 2574:12, 2574:15,
2575:6, 2579:8, 2631:24, 2643:17,
2643:24, 2644:19, 2645:5, 2665:1,
2709:15
numbers [2] - 2633:14
O
o'clock [12] - 2555:16, 2637:11,
2637:19, 2647:22, 2647:24, 2648:6,
2650:24, 2666:15, 2672:14, 2733:8,
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, FCRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
2738:9, 2741:8
oath [1] - 2671:9
object [20] - 2627:17, 2638:6, 2645:24,
2694:7, 2701:18, 2712:24, 2713:18,
2714:16, 2714:22, 2723:7, 2723:9,
2723:14, 2723:25, 2724:8, 2724:9,
2724:23, 2726:19, 2731:21, 2736:22,
2736:25
objected [2] - 2659:7, 2708:7
objecting [2] - 2700:9, 2713:9
objection [18] - 2618:14, 2618:20,
2639:6, 2639:16, 2659:1, 2659:10,
2659:12, 2663:18, 2701:1, 2704:22,
2715:11, 2715:12, 2721:18, 2721:20,
2725:24, 2730:15, 2734:19, 2736:7
objections [8] - 2639:20, 2641:23,
2709:15, 2725:23, 2727:23, 2735:7,
2735:10, 2737:12
objective [1] - 2717:1
objectives [1] - 2725:25
objects [1] - 2726:1
obligation [4] - 2587:18, 2704:4,
2705:8, 2708:16
obligations [1] - 2562:16
observation [1] - 2654:14
obtained [1] - 2623:17
obviously [4] - 2557:25, 2652:13,
2681:23, 2705:25
occasionally [1] - 2631:23
occasions [2] - 2559:17, 2706:17
occur [1] - 2592:23
occurred [4] - 2593:1, 2630:5, 2630:7,
2654:16
October [1] - 2734:22
OF [3] - 2552:1, 2552:3, 2552:10
offense [4] - 2653:25, 2654:6,
2654:22, 2715:25
offer [11] - 2566:8, 2567:17, 2572:5,
2572:7, 2572:24, 2578:1, 2578:5,
2635:24, 2637:25, 2660:10, 2696:13
offered [5] - 2564:3, 2600:10, 2610:15,
2618:17, 2641:3
offering [4] - 2591:22, 2600:13,
2609:7, 2641:8
offers [2] - 2572:2, 2658:12
office [1] - 2652:22
officers [1] - 2736:14
offices [2] - 2570:8, 2738:14
Official [1] - 2553:11
oil [4] - 2558:6, 2558:7, 2558:17,
2558:19
ointment [1] - 2584:7
old [1] - 2594:4
omission [7] - 2707:13, 2708:7,
2717:25, 2718:6, 2719:19, 2719:20,
2720:24
omissions [9] - 2706:12, 2707:1,
2707:6, 2708:5, 2718:8, 2718:9,
2720:2, 2720:6, 2720:16
omit [1] - 2674:15
omitted [1] - 2718:17
once [7] - 2649:11, 2669:12, 2672:6,
2692:14, 2696:1, 2698:17, 2706:3
one [100] - 2561:25, 2565:1, 2565:21,
2566:18, 2567:13, 2567:18, 2568:9,
2568:21, 2571:8, 2578:19, 2581:21,
2585:3, 2587:21, 2588:11, 2590:8,
2591:9, 2592:6, 2597:5, 2599:12,
2599:13, 2600:12, 2601:12, 2601:13,
2602:12, 2602:15, 2604:17, 2612:24,
2614:9, 2615:3, 2624:18, 2625:12,
2626:6, 2627:11, 2632:1, 2637:2,
2638:7, 2638:17, 2639:23, 2640:4,
2640:25, 2642:8, 2642:17, 2643:17,
2645:8, 2645:10, 2645:13, 2645:14,
2646:1, 2647:8, 2647:13, 2647:19,
2649:4, 2652:15, 2653:1, 2656:12,
2657:16, 2658:20, 2658:25, 2659:2,
2661:10, 2663:11, 2670:3, 2673:12,
2675:22, 2678:8, 2684:16, 2686:13,
2686:17, 2690:4, 2690:12, 2695:21,
2700:23, 2702:5, 2703:19, 2710:12,
2710:13, 2710:25, 2712:6, 2712:22,
2713:23, 2715:19, 2716:8, 2717:16,
2718:22, 2720:19, 2725:8, 2725:21,
2725:23, 2726:1, 2726:3, 2728:1,
2728:7, 2729:14, 2729:15, 2731:5,
2732:17, 2733:3, 2736:18
one's [1] - 2732:23
one-liner [1] - 2640:4
ones [3] - 2602:9, 2605:15, 2633:19
ongoing [2] - 2563:1, 2563:14
open [15] - 2554:1, 2554:2, 2637:1,
2652:2, 2653:7, 2657:7, 2657:24,
2672:6, 2673:1, 2674:20, 2691:3,
2694:21, 2696:7, 2697:2, 2739:15
opened [1] - 2712:14
opening [1] - 2715:7
operate [5] - 2563:14, 2565:18,
2567:3, 2567:4, 2582:6
operating [1] - 2583:12
operation [2] - 2559:22, 2560:9
operational [2] - 2622:3, 2622:8
opine [9] - 2563:17, 2564:1, 2564:7,
2565:17, 2575:3, 2580:8, 2580:9,
2591:24, 2695:18
opinion [28] - 2561:19, 2562:14,
2563:2, 2563:7, 2563:21, 2573:12,
2578:1, 2578:13, 2580:4, 2580:14,
2581:17, 2582:18, 2582:21, 2582:24,
2583:11, 2589:23, 2591:20, 2591:22,
2597:21, 2597:23, 2601:2, 2611:1,
2615:15, 2616:5, 2626:24, 2627:12,
2628:14, 2639:14
opinions [18] - 2561:13, 2563:6,
2563:9, 2564:10, 2564:11, 2568:18,
2571:17, 2578:6, 2578:7, 2591:16,
2597:24, 2601:1, 2601:2, 2601:4,
2604:11, 2608:20, 2609:3, 2610:15
opportunistic [1] - 2595:17
opportunities [1] - 2626:4
opportunity [16] - 2564:14, 2564:19,
2609:17, 2626:12, 2648:11, 2650:6,
2652:8, 2653:6, 2666:12, 2678:5,
2678:19, 2681:22, 2703:20, 2707:20,
2735:10, 2738:14
oppose [3] - 2700:5, 2700:6
opposed [4] - 2592:13, 2617:3,
2710:14, 2714:4
opposite [2] - 2603:25, 2604:2
opposition [2] - 2595:14, 2699:19
orally [1] - 2670:12
order [6] - 2621:3, 2622:21, 2671:6, 19
2691:3, 2703:23, 2709:25
orderly [1] - 2650:16
ordinary [1] - 2694:21
organization [1] - 2616:6
organized [1] - 2594:5
original [1] - 2673:19
otherwise [3] - 2627:19, 2692:19,
2723:12
outcome [3] - 2580:24, 2603:20,
2603:21
outside [3] - 2557:13, 2575:4, 2576:23
overlooked [1] - 2727:1
overnight [1] - 2696:9
overrules [1] - 2711:13
oversight [1] - 2726:10
oversimplification [1] - 2616:24
overstate [1] - 2601:13
overt [4] - 2726:12, 2726:14, 2726:16,
2726:24
owes [1] - 2704:3
own [13] - 2566:4, 2567:14, 2576:15,
2578:9, 2578:23, 2601:9, 2603:12,
2608:14, 2608:17, 2622:9, 2683:6,
2702:17
owned [2] - 2598:20, 2694:23
P
p.m [7] - 2620:5, 2620:13, 2637:8,
2652:2, 2660:13, 2672:16, 2674:20
p.m. [1] - 2650:25
Page [17] - 2704:8, 2704:10, 2705:9,
2713:3, 2713:21, 2715:24, 2718:3,
2722:8, 2722:9, 2726:23, 2728:5,
2728:20, 2730:3, 2730:16, 2736:2,
2736:6, 2736:12
page [11] - 2570:19, 2577:22, 2578:6,
2593:6, 2611:23, 2634:14, 2636:20,
2651:1, 2670:14, 2717:22
PAGE [2] - 2742:3, 2742:17
pages [3] - 2570:21, 2592:3, 2731:7
paid [5] - 2561:18, 2569:2, 2578:1,
2586:6, 2738:10
pair [2] - 2626:16, 2640:22
pair-wise [1] - 2626:16
Paleika [1] - 2646:16
paper [3] - 2575:19, 2621:12, 2621:13
paragraphs [2] - 2582:22
parallel [1] - 2677:17
part [28] - 2566:13, 2575:16, 2575:25,
2580:14, 2596:6, 2596:10, 2603:23,
2609:4, 2614:2, 2622:16, 2626:7,
2667:3, 2669:8, 2669:16, 2669:23,
2671:21, 2689:17, 2692:4, 2708:5,
2714:19, 2716:1, 2716:19, 2720:14,
2722:6, 2725:12, 2726:10, 2728:20,
2733:10
partially [1] - 2608:24
participants [1] - 2585:17
participated [3] - 2574:21, 2575:17,
2576:15
participation [1] - 2576:7
particular [34] - 2557:24, 2563:10,
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, FCRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
2572:9, 2587:25, 2591:18, 2603:4,
2611:11, 2612:19, 2613:2, 2614:14,
2615:18, 2615:20, 2617:2, 2623:1,
2625:15, 2625:17, 2627:14, 2635:11,
2650:18, 2665:4, 2669:1, 2678:10,
2691:16, 2692:10, 2692:15, 2699:21,
2707:9, 2711:25, 2712:1, 2718:24,
2719:1, 2719:24, 2739:9
particularly [2] - 2633:23, 2725:25
parties [16] - 2554:24, 2579:7,
2592:21, 2593:15, 2596:14, 2599:25,
2648:21, 2659:5, 2662:14, 2663:15,
2664:8, 2664:25, 2665:21, 2666:12,
2704:20, 2705:21
partner [1] - 2674:12
partnership [2] - 2677:16, 2678:13
parts [2] - 2609:4, 2669:7
party [4] - 2646:20, 2703:20, 2703:25,
2728:13
passed [2] - 2705:13, 2738:8
past [5] - 2560:7, 2573:21, 2573:22,
2589:1, 2714:12
path [1] - 2565:22
PATRICK [1] - 2552:16
Patrick [1] - 2554:13
Paul [1] - 2712:12
pay [4] - 2586:13, 2650:17, 2712:11,
2738:9
pedestrian [1] - 2590:7
peer [1] - 2560:14
pending [2] - 2591:14, 2591:17
people [30] - 2567:9, 2567:24, 2570:6,
2570:12, 2570:17, 2585:20, 2586:16,
2595:2, 2596:15, 2597:24, 2600:11,
2603:24, 2604:2, 2604:13, 2604:21,
2606:20, 2610:16, 2610:21, 2646:20,
2666:1, 2676:21, 2685:19, 2688:2,
2689:20, 2689:22, 2692:20, 2692:21,
2715:10, 2727:9, 2741:7
percent [10] - 2572:7, 2572:10,
2572:11, 2572:17, 2601:15, 2621:3,
2623:5, 2623:8, 2659:18, 2725:10
perfect [3] - 2709:17, 2709:18,
2709:20
perfectly [5] - 2586:3, 2671:19,
2675:13, 2686:15, 2721:19
perform [4] - 2559:24, 2561:6, 2585:3,
2585:6
performance [1] - 2561:25
performed [3] - 2562:6, 2622:5,
2623:9
performing [1] - 2569:7
perhaps [6] - 2601:13, 2628:16,
2696:20, 2707:17, 2724:4, 2731:5
period [27] - 2566:12, 2567:7, 2576:4,
2579:7, 2594:14, 2597:22, 2600:13,
2601:18, 2609:8, 2621:16, 2622:2,
2622:15, 2622:24, 2623:21, 2626:20,
2627:2, 2628:5, 2630:3, 2630:13,
2630:20, 2632:19, 2633:4, 2637:4,
2653:10, 2666:21, 2732:4, 2741:5
periodically [2] - 2622:20, 2727:18
periods [4] - 2584:13, 2590:4,
2622:10, 2623:13
permissible [1] - 2654:18
permit [1] - 2630:1
permitted [3] - 2653:24, 2693:5,
2693:9
permutations [1] - 2725:21
person [9] - 2573:18, 2627:14, 2647:7,
2647:12, 2648:19, 2699:14, 2702:15,
2702:18, 2704:14
personal [2] - 2671:11, 2732:23
personality [1] - 2727:16
personally [1] - 2588:18
persons [1] - 2704:3
perspective [3] - 2562:25, 2563:13,
2709:3
pertinence [1] - 2717:6
Peter [1] - 2712:11
Ph.D [2] - 2556:22, 2557:4
philosophy [2] - 2603:5, 2603:10
phone [2] - 2615:1, 2653:12
phrase [1] - 2616:14
pick [2] - 2614:4, 2615:1
pickup [2] - 2569:23, 2602:5
piece [4] - 2571:25, 2578:19, 2663:11,
2699:14
pieces [3] - 2566:16, 2569:9, 2578:12
pin [1] - 2695:21
Pinkerton [5] - 2698:16, 2701:4,
2701:5, 2701:8, 2701:23
place [10] - 2566:5, 2588:17, 2595:5,
2595:19, 2604:5, 2642:25, 2650:9,
2688:19, 2689:6, 2731:24
placed [1] - 2663:10
placement [2] - 2621:25, 2708:10
places [1] - 2718:5
plain [1] - 2593:21
plaintiff's [1] - 2677:25
Plaintiffs [1] - 2553:3
plaintiffs [3] - 2677:14, 2678:2,
2681:12
plan [6] - 2564:4, 2590:17, 2649:19,
2668:11, 2670:12, 2738:9
plans [2] - 2671:5, 2671:11
play [7] - 2566:19, 2586:9, 2588:10,
2590:6, 2593:15, 2609:9, 2643:1
played [1] - 2566:21
plays [1] - 2697:14
Plaza [1] - 2552:15
pleasant [1] - 2660:16
pleased [1] - 2560:18
pleasure [1] - 2660:17
pled [1] - 2721:15
plenty [1] - 2568:19
plight [1] - 2626:5
plus [2] - 2578:9, 2599:2
point [18] - 2565:21, 2592:4, 2598:1,
2610:11, 2620:1, 2622:7, 2627:7,
2629:15, 2635:8, 2654:14, 2656:12,
2657:4, 2664:4, 2665:25, 2683:12,
2690:4, 2712:13, 2732:17
pointed [2] - 2685:23, 2720:13
points [3] - 2566:1, 2624:7, 2690:12
policies [2] - 2559:13, 2559:21
policy [6] - 2556:23, 2557:17, 2557:22,
2558:1, 2559:7, 2560:20
pools [1] - 2587:15
popular [1] - 2560:18
pore [1] - 2621:3
PORSHA [3] - 2562:12, 2573:11,
20
2610:2
portfolio [30] - 2566:4, 2611:8, 2611:9,
2611:10, 2612:2, 2612:3, 2612:5,
2612:10, 2612:11, 2612:16, 2612:22,
2613:15, 2614:10, 2614:24, 2614:25,
2615:4, 2615:11, 2616:7, 2617:2,
2625:13, 2630:10, 2631:7, 2633:4,
2722:21, 2722:23, 2736:15, 2736:18,
2737:2, 2737:6, 2737:7
portfolios [1] - 2620:21
Portia [3] - 2617:23, 2625:17, 2631:6
portion [1] - 2725:25
portions [2] - 2626:5, 2670:21
posed [2] - 2580:6, 2582:3
position [15] - 2565:11, 2603:1,
2632:4, 2632:23, 2638:6, 2646:12,
2648:14, 2648:17, 2653:22, 2683:8,
2686:19, 2690:18, 2696:14, 2705:6,
2705:7
positions [9] - 2557:6, 2631:20,
2631:22, 2631:23, 2632:2, 2632:6,
2632:10, 2632:13, 2632:20
positive [8] - 2580:16, 2580:19,
2580:23, 2581:13, 2582:9, 2583:8,
2625:9, 2658:5
possession [2] - 2702:5, 2704:15
possibilities [1] - 2579:12
possibility [8] - 2600:7, 2635:15,
2635:17, 2636:7, 2648:6, 2720:7,
2740:20, 2741:2
possible [5] - 2600:25, 2603:14,
2636:12, 2647:7, 2725:20
possibly [6] - 2607:9, 2628:25,
2657:18, 2686:13, 2724:24, 2739:7
post [3] - 2594:14, 2632:21, 2633:1
posting [1] - 2623:4
potential [2] - 2611:1, 2725:4
potentiality [1] - 2578:18
potentially [2] - 2573:14, 2610:1
pouring [1] - 2598:14
power [1] - 2703:20
Powerball [1] - 2605:11
PPM [3] - 2580:12, 2606:7, 2698:10
practical [3] - 2556:12, 2615:16,
2724:20
practice [2] - 2716:11, 2716:23
precisely [1] - 2591:19
preclude [1] - 2695:6
precluded [1] - 2641:4
predicate [2] - 2644:14, 2712:20
predict [1] - 2558:15
predicted [3] - 2586:25, 2587:1,
2625:4
predictions [1] - 2584:1
preference [2] - 2637:14, 2637:15
prejudice [1] - 2657:18
prejudicial [1] - 2656:7
preliminary [3] - 2667:7, 2669:15,
2675:19
preparation [2] - 2648:16, 2673:8
prepare [4] - 2682:2, 2696:5, 2709:2,
2735:21
prepared [7] - 2564:3, 2648:1,
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, FCRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
2648:18, 2649:1, 2657:22, 2657:23,
2716:15
preparing [2] - 2574:7, 2666:13
preponderance [2] - 2697:16, 2697:18
prescribed [1] - 2686:1
presence [2] - 2635:3, 2715:7
present [8] - 2554:2, 2555:11, 2568:2,
2568:6, 2589:14, 2729:2, 2729:17,
2737:19
Present [1] - 2553:8
preservation [1] - 2734:20
preserve [2] - 2730:15, 2735:12
preserves [1] - 2732:23
preserving [3] - 2697:21, 2717:18,
2738:1
President [2] - 2575:22, 2664:10
president [3] - 2557:22, 2557:24,
2576:15
presiding [1] - 2554:5
pressure [5] - 2648:12, 2650:21,
2656:9, 2666:21, 2666:25
pressured [1] - 2666:12
presumably [1] - 2703:11
presume [1] - 2597:19
presumption [1] - 2669:10
pretrial [2] - 2710:14, 2733:7
pretty [4] - 2663:15, 2669:4, 2680:2,
2689:15
prevailing [1] - 2624:2
previous [3] - 2574:1, 2729:14, 2730:7
previously [3] - 2560:21, 2620:19,
2646:18
price [3] - 2617:6, 2617:18, 2625:22
prices [33] - 2558:6, 2558:19, 2565:22,
2565:25, 2585:9, 2585:10, 2585:15,
2586:12, 2586:24, 2586:25, 2587:7,
2588:4, 2588:7, 2588:16, 2594:11,
2594:23, 2595:14, 2595:22, 2597:16,
2597:18, 2599:5, 2611:9, 2619:3,
2619:11, 2624:2, 2624:3, 2624:5,
2624:12, 2625:4, 2625:5, 2625:8,
2625:16
pricing [1] - 2626:4
primary [1] - 2564:10
principal [6] - 2557:23, 2564:2,
2571:3, 2571:19, 2667:9, 2667:12
principally [3] - 2556:14, 2559:11,
2570:18
principals [1] - 2625:11
principles [1] - 2669:9
private [4] - 2556:16, 2556:19,
2681:12, 2708:9
probability [1] - 2587:22
probative [2] - 2606:22, 2619:18
problem [22] - 2592:20, 2592:21,
2593:1, 2594:4, 2594:24, 2595:1,
2596:2, 2596:6, 2596:10, 2596:24,
2600:17, 2600:18, 2629:20, 2640:1,
2650:17, 2652:25, 2657:19, 2664:1,
2722:15, 2725:16, 2729:11, 2731:22
problem" [1] - 2592:22
problems [5] - 2601:12, 2610:2,
2663:22, 2675:4, 2739:5
proceeding [2] - 2569:2, 2700:18
Proceedings [2] - 2553:14, 2634:14
proceedings [3] - 2584:20, 2670:16,
2741:14
proceeds [1] - 2701:19
process [4] - 2564:4, 2571:11, 2656:8,
2700:7
produce [1] - 2656:17
produced [4] - 2553:14, 2562:17,
2575:19, 2676:7
products [1] - 2565:16
professional [1] - 2559:9
Professor [2] - 2693:6, 2703:8
professor [5] - 2556:10, 2556:11,
2556:17, 2556:18, 2584:11
profit [1] - 2566:6
profitability [1] - 2626:9
profitable [5] - 2563:1, 2563:13,
2566:15, 2586:23, 2624:25
profitably [1] - 2567:4
profited [2] - 2733:19
profits [2] - 2564:25, 2626:13
program [1] - 2556:21
progress [1] - 2681:19
project [2] - 2625:9
prominence [1] - 2729:3
prominently [1] - 2610:6
promotes [1] - 2726:24
prompt [1] - 2666:16
prongs [1] - 2684:2
proof [8] - 2669:10, 2683:14, 2683:16,
2683:23, 2727:9, 2733:25, 2734:4,
2734:7
proofreading [1] - 2714:19
properly [2] - 2671:7, 2709:2
properties [1] - 2576:13
property [1] - 2702:16
proposals [1] - 2735:25
propose [3] - 2693:8, 2735:25, 2738:7
Proposed [4] - 2675:2, 2694:12,
2694:19, 2729:16
proposed [18] - 2639:16, 2673:3,
2691:20, 2694:13, 2713:2, 2717:5,
2726:21, 2727:7, 2729:7, 2731:4,
2731:6, 2731:10, 2731:16, 2732:11,
2732:19, 2734:21, 2734:22, 2737:15
proposition [5] - 2655:20, 2680:13,
2681:2, 2682:14, 2684:20
proprietary [2] - 2613:24, 2614:17
prosecution [2] - 2681:7, 2682:24
prosecutor [2] - 2627:20, 2628:9
prospect [1] - 2611:3
prospects [1] - 2562:7
protected [1] - 2727:25
proven [2] - 2684:7, 2720:3
provide [5] - 2561:19, 2574:24,
2581:18, 2693:1, 2693:4
provided [14] - 2555:4, 2558:3,
2558:21, 2578:8, 2578:9, 2578:24,
2579:2, 2590:9, 2610:2, 2611:4,
2616:10, 2628:23, 2633:19, 2709:16
providing [1] - 2567:9
proxy [2] - 2605:18, 2693:7
prudent [1] - 2624:6
psychologically [1] - 2671:12
public [14] - 2559:12, 2604:24,
2611:11, 2611:16, 2612:11, 2616:16,
2616:23, 2617:3, 2617:11, 2617:13,
2617:20, 2617:21, 2617:24, 2705:25 21
publications [3] - 2559:25, 2560:11,
2560:12
publicly [4] - 2611:6, 2611:8, 2611:9,
2611:20
puffery [5] - 2731:17, 2731:19, 2732:7,
2732:14, 2737:20
pull [1] - 2603:17
pulled [1] - 2592:24
purchase [29] - 2586:8, 2676:3,
2676:6, 2676:21, 2678:1, 2679:10,
2679:18, 2682:20, 2683:10, 2683:17,
2685:7, 2685:18, 2686:20, 2686:22,
2686:23, 2686:25, 2687:6, 2687:8,
2687:9, 2687:13, 2687:14, 2688:23,
2689:1, 2706:22, 2711:9, 2711:22,
2733:24, 2734:13, 2737:21
purchased [4] - 2689:2, 2689:3,
2711:2, 2711:24
purchaser [2] - 2682:16, 2683:12
purchases [5] - 2681:11, 2685:6,
2685:8, 2688:13, 2689:4
purchasing [1] - 2687:17
purely [1] - 2606:4
purpose [7] - 2562:21, 2653:7, 2665:4,
2667:8, 2713:18, 2714:3, 2723:2
purposes [7] - 2555:16, 2568:3,
2568:6, 2589:14, 2724:3, 2724:15,
2734:20
pursued [1] - 2565:14
pursuing [1] - 2604:7
put [34] - 2560:12, 2570:19, 2571:16,
2582:17, 2586:19, 2587:15, 2587:17,
2601:19, 2605:10, 2607:12, 2613:4,
2641:21, 2641:22, 2647:18, 2648:15,
2650:8, 2657:23, 2659:8, 2660:23,
2661:1, 2662:10, 2675:14, 2675:22,
2678:15, 2683:7, 2685:3, 2691:18,
2726:14, 2732:8, 2732:12, 2735:16,
2736:18
puts [1] - 2703:16
putting [6] - 2598:14, 2600:2, 2628:21,
2680:8, 2686:11, 2689:9
Q
QSIP [1] - 2615:20
qualifications [2] - 2575:3, 2693:15
qualified [5] - 2619:5, 2693:14,
2693:18, 2693:22, 2693:25
qualify [5] - 2567:20, 2673:4, 2676:3,
2686:13, 2688:19
quarter [1] - 2733:7
Quental [3] - 2641:16, 2641:19, 2698:9
questioned [1] - 2641:20
questions [30] - 2561:3, 2561:19,
2562:23, 2564:22, 2568:1, 2568:10,
2568:12, 2568:14, 2571:6, 2575:3,
2579:22, 2582:13, 2589:17, 2596:3,
2599:16, 2604:14, 2604:16, 2604:18,
2604:20, 2604:21, 2612:18, 2612:21,
2618:1, 2619:18, 2629:3, 2631:10,
2634:4, 2653:9, 2685:15, 2696:21
quick [1] - 2673:10
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, FCRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
quickly [1] - 2638:21
quit [1] - 2600:25
quite [1] - 2565:15
quote [2] - 2676:4, 2676:9
quoting [1] - 2632:21
R
Raggi [2] - 2680:20, 2690:3
rail [1] - 2701:4
raise [2] - 2582:7, 2681:23
raised [2] - 2653:4, 2696:25
raising [2] - 2556:16, 2622:14
rallying [1] - 2597:17
Ralph [5] - 2552:20, 2554:9, 2554:24,
2664:22, 2725:10
RALPH [1] - 2552:7
range [1] - 2574:16
rate [1] - 2573:19
rated [3] - 2620:25, 2625:24, 2625:25
rather [4] - 2591:1, 2625:9, 2645:2,
2714:11
rating [2] - 2588:25, 2610:8
RDR [1] - 2553:11
Re [1] - 2572:13
reached [1] - 2622:4
reaching [1] - 2621:20
read [23] - 2590:21, 2601:25, 2602:3,
2602:7, 2602:9, 2602:18, 2602:20,
2602:22, 2606:12, 2611:12, 2654:17,
2655:17, 2656:10, 2657:10, 2658:20,
2660:9, 2660:10, 2660:11, 2662:16,
2664:3, 2664:4, 2680:11, 2727:19
readback [1] - 2670:18
reading [2] - 2573:10, 2663:18
ready [4] - 2665:16, 2668:23, 2709:5,
2709:6
real [11] - 2567:16, 2576:13, 2589:9,
2630:16, 2648:5, 2666:3, 2670:12,
2689:17, 2725:10, 2739:5, 2739:7
real-time [1] - 2630:16
realistic [2] - 2649:23, 2699:7
realistically [1] - 2649:17
really [33] - 2555:15, 2557:23,
2558:13, 2573:3, 2573:18, 2581:5,
2599:25, 2606:6, 2607:2, 2619:15,
2627:3, 2629:15, 2675:25, 2686:2,
2688:25, 2692:19, 2695:11, 2696:22,
2706:4, 2707:2, 2707:9, 2707:10,
2712:4, 2713:24, 2714:9, 2716:20,
2718:16, 2725:16, 2731:24, 2734:12,
2734:15, 2735:20, 2740:20
realm [1] - 2616:23
rear [1] - 2740:18
reargue [1] - 2739:8
reason [20] - 2573:23, 2578:15,
2584:1, 2585:5, 2592:7, 2594:22,
2598:1, 2600:12, 2626:10, 2626:17,
2629:24, 2659:6, 2666:3, 2670:3,
2673:13, 2682:12, 2685:16, 2693:5,
2708:8, 2739:8
reasonable [47] - 2562:24, 2563:3,
2563:13, 2563:19, 2563:24, 2564:24,
2565:18, 2566:11, 2566:15, 2567:3,
2574:16, 2580:22, 2581:9, 2581:12,
2582:8, 2582:18, 2582:25, 2583:4,
2583:6, 2583:10, 2584:2, 2586:4,
2586:17, 2589:25, 2590:17, 2597:19,
2601:5, 2601:7, 2603:20, 2603:24,
2603:25, 2622:5, 2624:20, 2624:22,
2633:4, 2656:14, 2669:11, 2691:15,
2691:19, 2692:9, 2692:14, 2694:13,
2694:24, 2695:4, 2740:11, 2741:5
reasonably [7] - 2565:21, 2586:23,
2603:16, 2617:8, 2625:9, 2626:25,
2701:10
reasons [9] - 2564:12, 2564:18,
2583:17, 2592:4, 2595:23, 2599:11,
2632:1, 2653:1, 2713:24
rebuild [2] - 2622:11, 2623:14
rebuilding [1] - 2622:13
rebut [1] - 2667:10
rebuttal [12] - 2636:4, 2637:22,
2665:14, 2665:17, 2667:5, 2667:8,
2667:14, 2667:18, 2668:10, 2668:15,
2740:5, 2741:10
Receive [1] - 2559:1
received [9] - 2557:1, 2557:4, 2571:5,
2572:17, 2573:3, 2602:17, 2602:18,
2665:6, 2742:19
receiving [1] - 2652:12
recent [2] - 2574:14, 2624:5
recently [4] - 2572:14, 2622:22,
2624:2, 2630:7
Recess [2] - 2620:7, 2674:19
recess [2] - 2640:14, 2650:25
recipient [2] - 2578:19, 2578:21
recitation [1] - 2574:24
recollect [1] - 2705:15
recollection [1] - 2621:2
recommendation [3] - 2722:5,
2722:14, 2722:24
reconsideration [1] - 2708:23
reconvene [1] - 2674:13
record [22] - 2554:11, 2556:1,
2615:19, 2635:2, 2636:13, 2652:13,
2656:24, 2671:25, 2674:4, 2674:21,
2676:21, 2680:21, 2682:3, 2692:24,
2702:24, 2719:11, 2725:8, 2725:17,
2734:20, 2735:10, 2737:11, 2738:1
recorded [1] - 2553:14
records [3] - 2579:4, 2620:20, 2664:20
recover [1] - 2677:14
RECROSS [2] - 2629:5, 2742:13
RECROSS-EXAMINATION [2] 2629:5, 2742:13
redeem [9] - 2600:3, 2601:9, 2601:17,
2676:17, 2677:19, 2678:16, 2687:21,
2687:24, 2708:10
redeemed [1] - 2600:6
redeeming [4] - 2687:16, 2687:18,
2688:2, 2689:10
redemption [25] - 2592:9, 2592:15,
2592:20, 2592:23, 2593:12, 2593:22,
2594:1, 2594:10, 2594:22, 2595:19,
2595:21, 2596:6, 2597:4, 2599:13,
2683:15, 2683:18, 2683:24, 2684:6,
2684:13, 2684:17, 2686:12, 2686:24,
2688:7, 2688:8, 2688:11
redemptions [20] - 2591:5, 2591:13,
2591:17, 2593:9, 2596:21, 2629:24,
2630:2, 2684:24, 2684:25, 2685:2,
22
2685:3, 2685:13, 2686:10, 2686:11,
2688:18, 2712:16, 2720:22, 2720:25
REDIRECT [2] - 2620:17, 2742:11
redirect [5] - 2564:15, 2596:4,
2609:16, 2619:21, 2619:23
reduce [1] - 2657:14
refer [2] - 2580:25, 2681:3
referable [1] - 2736:9
reference [4] - 2652:22, 2673:18,
2691:13, 2692:25
references [1] - 2570:25
referred [2] - 2576:17, 2613:19
referring [1] - 2643:19
refinancing [1] - 2628:24
reflect [5] - 2636:4, 2636:5, 2637:22,
2657:10, 2708:21
reflected [1] - 2623:11
reflects [1] - 2685:10
reform [2] - 2575:18, 2575:19
reforms [1] - 2588:22
regard [2] - 2727:22, 2738:3
regular [2] - 2567:21, 2570:12
regularly [1] - 2570:9
regulations [9] - 2559:7, 2576:2,
2677:3, 2677:4, 2693:1, 2693:2,
2693:3, 2693:4, 2693:14
Regulations [1] - 2560:8
regulatory [2] - 2560:6, 2664:15
rehash [1] - 2739:14
reinforces [1] - 2681:2
reinforcing [1] - 2641:17
reiterate [1] - 2734:20
relate [4] - 2685:13, 2711:14, 2711:25,
2726:19
related [8] - 2559:20, 2576:20,
2602:16, 2607:24, 2643:17, 2658:12,
2698:1, 2712:15
relates [3] - 2607:7, 2711:9, 2716:9
relating [6] - 2559:7, 2561:7, 2607:22,
2610:19, 2628:10, 2711:22
relationship [8] - 2702:11, 2702:12,
2703:17, 2703:19, 2703:23, 2704:2,
2704:16, 2705:20
relative [6] - 2614:3, 2626:5, 2626:9,
2626:13, 2626:15, 2631:23
Relative [3] - 2626:1, 2626:3, 2626:7
relaxed [1] - 2666:24
relevance [4] - 2589:21, 2639:15,
2645:2, 2647:11
relevancy [2] - 2659:8, 2659:14
relevant [13] - 2581:5, 2589:11,
2602:10, 2602:12, 2631:8, 2631:10,
2632:17, 2677:4, 2687:14, 2706:16,
2720:1, 2722:20, 2728:11
reliance [13] - 2678:22, 2679:22,
2680:3, 2680:6, 2680:8, 2680:10,
2680:11, 2680:17, 2691:2, 2691:6,
2691:7, 2698:3, 2703:18
relied [2] - 2610:10, 2616:5
relief [1] - 2685:22
rely [1] - 2656:18
relying [2] - 2706:11, 2707:1
remain [1] - 2587:7
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, FCRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
remainder [1] - 2728:24
remains [1] - 2665:20
remarks [4] - 2665:21, 2666:13,
2666:18, 2667:7
remember [11] - 2575:18, 2579:8,
2585:12, 2586:2, 2593:4, 2600:25,
2625:11, 2633:13, 2658:2, 2663:4,
2671:8
remind [2] - 2663:1, 2712:19
remove [1] - 2728:8
render [2] - 2561:13, 2719:19
renew [2] - 2673:11, 2673:15
renews [1] - 2673:25
reopen [7] - 2653:24, 2654:7, 2654:11,
2654:19, 2655:9, 2655:18, 2655:23
reopened [1] - 2655:1
repeat [2] - 2667:8, 2735:15
repetitious [4] - 2609:11, 2609:18,
2666:23, 2667:13
rephrased [1] - 2710:9
replete [1] - 2615:19
repo [14] - 2586:5, 2586:13, 2588:9,
2590:5, 2592:20, 2592:23, 2593:14,
2596:14, 2597:5, 2598:2, 2599:13,
2621:7, 2623:4, 2627:3
Repo [1] - 2596:17
report [29] - 2555:3, 2564:3, 2569:9,
2570:19, 2570:24, 2571:1, 2571:2,
2571:3, 2571:5, 2571:9, 2571:17,
2571:18, 2571:20, 2573:6, 2573:9,
2574:7, 2577:16, 2577:22, 2581:1,
2586:25, 2588:20, 2592:3, 2592:4,
2592:13, 2592:17, 2593:6, 2599:11,
2611:12, 2624:16
reportedly [2] - 2703:3, 2703:7
Reporter [2] - 2553:11, 2553:11
reporter's [1] - 2722:11
reporters [1] - 2670:20
reports [2] - 2562:18, 2607:25
representation [4] - 2684:12, 2686:21,
2730:7, 2732:24
representations [1] - 2712:14
representing [2] - 2655:12, 2655:16
repurchase [6] - 2565:7, 2567:8,
2585:23, 2598:15, 2598:22, 2599:4
repurchasing [2] - 2598:6, 2598:9
request [11] - 2648:15, 2675:15,
2676:1, 2715:5, 2715:14, 2717:3,
2721:14, 2727:6, 2728:8, 2734:21,
2737:14
requested [2] - 2728:14, 2732:20
requests [10] - 2592:9, 2592:15,
2592:20, 2592:23, 2594:10, 2594:22,
2599:13, 2601:20, 2737:13, 2738:3
require [2] - 2696:6, 2740:19
required [1] - 2688:23
requirement [4] - 2605:6, 2676:5,
2677:25, 2733:23
requirements [3] - 2588:24, 2605:4,
2605:8
requires [5] - 2628:19, 2670:8,
2685:18, 2710:8, 2716:6
research [4] - 2557:13, 2559:10,
2575:5, 2577:9
Research [1] - 2557:14
resent [1] - 2589:20
Reserve [4] - 2559:2, 2559:3, 2559:4,
2559:6
reserve [2] - 2673:21, 2738:25
reserved [3] - 2674:5, 2682:5, 2696:2
residential [1] - 2587:16
resolved [1] - 2697:24
respect [23] - 2559:25, 2563:10,
2563:22, 2605:9, 2609:10, 2640:11,
2645:19, 2653:23, 2658:24, 2669:17,
2699:23, 2700:13, 2704:19, 2707:12,
2709:24, 2710:11, 2717:4, 2717:20,
2718:24, 2723:4, 2724:6, 2726:9,
2738:4
respecting [1] - 2680:7
respects [1] - 2575:14
respond [1] - 2681:22
response [8] - 2623:22, 2623:24,
2653:5, 2654:12, 2676:10, 2678:6,
2709:25, 2718:12
responsibilities [1] - 2671:7
responsibility [5] - 2556:13, 2575:25,
2671:12, 2672:11, 2698:18
rest [8] - 2648:9, 2665:25, 2667:24,
2668:18, 2672:13, 2696:22, 2718:13,
2727:22
restated [1] - 2598:4
restaurant [1] - 2660:18
rested [1] - 2654:9
resting [1] - 2635:22
rests [3] - 2655:4, 2665:9, 2665:12
result [2] - 2588:14, 2733:19
retained [3] - 2561:12, 2561:18,
2563:6
retention [2] - 2561:15, 2664:15
rethink [1] - 2714:14
retry [1] - 2720:7
return [13] - 2565:9, 2580:16, 2580:19,
2580:23, 2584:18, 2625:9, 2637:6,
2640:7, 2647:24, 2649:15, 2719:23,
2729:14, 2730:3
returned [1] - 2566:22
returns [10] - 2563:1, 2565:6, 2581:13,
2582:9, 2583:8, 2603:9, 2609:5,
2611:3, 2615:5, 2625:12
reversed [1] - 2625:1
review [6] - 2560:14, 2571:17, 2579:6,
2593:4, 2601:24, 2608:20
reviewed [12] - 2573:6, 2573:8,
2573:22, 2579:8, 2580:12, 2606:24,
2607:22, 2607:25, 2627:8, 2660:7,
2660:22, 2664:20
revised [1] - 2726:16
revisiting [1] - 2698:17
RICHARD [1] - 2553:2
rides [1] - 2660:12
rings [1] - 2672:7
rise [4] - 2554:3, 2620:4, 2620:12,
2672:15
risk [9] - 2576:12, 2584:19, 2585:25,
2586:1, 2586:7, 2587:25, 2596:16,
2596:18, 2741:9
risks [2] - 2576:7, 2608:14
RMBS [1] - 2614:15
road [3] - 2558:9, 2601:13, 2671:15
Robert [1] - 2556:2
role [2] - 2589:12, 2669:13
23
roles [1] - 2669:12
room [2] - 2668:24, 2670:22
roughly [3] - 2570:5, 2622:21, 2668:20
routed [2] - 2664:19, 2664:22
Rule [13] - 2639:23, 2641:4, 2642:18,
2642:20, 2642:23, 2643:9, 2643:11,
2643:18, 2645:12, 2645:19, 2677:15,
2679:18, 2681:13
rule [3] - 2641:23, 2645:24, 2655:3
Rule 29 [13] - 2652:12, 2653:1, 2653:5,
2654:9, 2654:12, 2673:16, 2673:19,
2673:25, 2676:15, 2682:5, 2696:2,
2699:22, 2727:22
ruled [4] - 2645:16, 2652:13, 2697:22,
2705:12
rules [4] - 2605:21, 2605:23, 2606:3
ruling [8] - 2641:25, 2642:7, 2647:19,
2647:20, 2658:4, 2659:15, 2664:5,
2680:14
rulings [3] - 2638:9, 2642:14, 2675:13
ruminating [1] - 2704:5
run [5] - 2576:23, 2585:12, 2590:18,
2658:25, 2741:9
running [2] - 2575:12, 2741:3
rush [1] - 2666:20
S
S.A [1] - 2553:8
safe [2] - 2585:13, 2585:14
safeguard [1] - 2720:7
sake [1] - 2701:9
salaries [1] - 2647:5
sale [26] - 2624:1, 2676:3, 2676:6,
2678:1, 2678:25, 2679:10, 2679:18,
2680:9, 2682:20, 2683:10, 2683:20,
2684:1, 2684:18, 2685:3, 2685:18,
2686:13, 2687:14, 2688:7, 2688:8,
2688:10, 2688:16, 2688:23, 2706:22,
2733:24, 2734:13, 2737:21
sales [6] - 2585:21, 2685:9, 2688:19,
2731:16, 2731:19, 2731:25
salespeople [1] - 2627:9
Sand [1] - 2702:8
SANO [1] - 2552:17
Sano [1] - 2554:14
sat [1] - 2571:8
satisfied [3] - 2676:7, 2678:2, 2685:12
satisfy [5] - 2683:18, 2684:13, 2707:5,
2707:11, 2709:1
save [1] - 2697:25
saved [1] - 2683:6
saw [5] - 2590:12, 2607:24, 2623:14,
2624:4, 2633:18
scenario [2] - 2681:21, 2698:5
scheme [4] - 2716:22, 2721:15,
2726:25, 2733:20
Schlisser [1] - 2691:3
school [12] - 2556:9, 2556:11,
2556:14, 2556:16, 2567:19, 2567:20,
2589:5, 2593:20, 2593:24, 2617:15
School [6] - 2557:10, 2557:11,
2557:12, 2571:13, 2605:7, 2605:22
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, FCRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
school's [1] - 2556:15
schools [1] - 2600:15
Science [1] - 2557:2
sciences [2] - 2556:12, 2556:22
screwy [1] - 2697:23
seal [1] - 2722:20
searching [1] - 2568:10
seated [5] - 2620:14, 2637:9, 2652:3,
2652:4, 2660:14
SEC [1] - 2681:16
second [26] - 2563:16, 2563:18,
2565:10, 2565:17, 2566:10, 2639:3,
2640:25, 2642:17, 2644:17, 2645:10,
2659:24, 2661:10, 2667:15, 2669:16,
2673:12, 2683:22, 2713:23, 2715:21,
2717:1, 2717:16, 2717:20, 2718:22,
2721:12, 2722:1, 2722:2, 2736:18
Second Circuit [10] - 2654:24,
2654:25, 2655:8, 2655:21, 2657:5,
2657:7, 2677:12, 2697:21, 2697:24,
2705:15
secretary [1] - 2557:16
Section [2] - 2677:15, 2679:8
Sections [1] - 2716:22
secured [3] - 2598:13, 2598:21,
2704:16
secures [1] - 2715:19
securities [67] - 2565:12, 2584:22,
2584:23, 2587:16, 2587:23, 2598:3,
2598:16, 2598:19, 2610:8, 2620:23,
2620:25, 2621:5, 2625:24, 2625:25,
2669:18, 2675:24, 2676:4, 2676:6,
2676:8, 2676:17, 2676:18, 2676:21,
2677:5, 2678:3, 2678:9, 2678:13,
2679:5, 2683:3, 2687:5, 2687:6,
2689:2, 2689:14, 2689:23, 2690:6,
2693:1, 2693:4, 2693:13, 2697:2,
2697:3, 2700:3, 2700:12, 2708:6,
2710:23, 2711:3, 2711:10, 2711:22,
2711:23, 2713:21, 2715:15, 2715:22,
2715:24, 2717:4, 2717:7, 2717:21,
2722:3, 2722:12, 2723:9, 2723:15,
2723:16, 2723:19, 2723:22, 2723:23,
2724:13, 2725:12, 2725:15, 2733:11,
2733:12
Securities [2] - 2681:13, 2681:17
security [20] - 2562:14, 2676:2,
2678:1, 2678:14, 2679:18, 2682:16,
2682:21, 2682:24, 2687:8, 2699:3,
2700:11, 2701:11, 2702:6, 2706:22,
2710:21, 2711:2, 2724:23, 2733:24,
2734:12, 2734:13
see [36] - 2555:16, 2579:9, 2579:12,
2579:14, 2579:16, 2579:17, 2579:19,
2617:8, 2617:10, 2623:22, 2624:6,
2628:12, 2629:20, 2633:8, 2633:11,
2642:25, 2643:14, 2643:24, 2645:2,
2647:10, 2649:14, 2650:15, 2656:10,
2669:1, 2671:18, 2672:13, 2689:18,
2690:2, 2690:12, 2696:21, 2702:19,
2714:23, 2726:11, 2727:13, 2734:10,
2740:8
seeing [1] - 2660:17
seek [1] - 2563:19
seem [5] - 2613:20, 2646:13, 2715:10,
2728:11, 2728:15
sell [22] - 2586:9, 2586:12, 2594:25,
2595:21, 2599:4, 2623:24, 2627:14,
2676:8, 2676:17, 2677:4, 2677:16,
2677:19, 2678:3, 2678:12, 2683:3,
2683:4, 2687:5, 2687:9, 2687:13,
2688:4, 2689:8
sell-side [1] - 2627:14
seller [2] - 2682:16, 2683:12
sellers [1] - 2681:11
selling [4] - 2622:14, 2623:15,
2623:16, 2688:9
sells [1] - 2623:25
send [6] - 2635:10, 2635:18, 2636:16,
2648:8, 2738:13, 2739:4
sending [1] - 2699:11
SENIOR [1] - 2552:11
sense [19] - 2562:10, 2568:7, 2568:17,
2576:1, 2597:8, 2604:19, 2604:21,
2606:20, 2611:21, 2614:12, 2616:22,
2622:5, 2641:7, 2685:25, 2689:19,
2691:14, 2714:1, 2735:21, 2738:24
sensitive [1] - 2690:20
sent [4] - 2579:6, 2664:16, 2668:24,
2735:19
sentence [2] - 2582:13, 2596:9
sentencing [1] - 2724:20
separate [8] - 2684:18, 2684:19,
2700:22, 2711:4, 2711:17, 2716:7,
2723:25, 2725:1
separately [5] - 2656:9, 2711:6,
2711:16, 2712:9, 2712:20
separating [1] - 2696:21
series [3] - 2562:17, 2622:21, 2623:6
seriously [2] - 2686:3, 2740:22
serve [1] - 2703:25
servers [7] - 2652:18, 2652:24,
2653:10, 2664:8, 2664:12, 2664:14,
2664:19
Service [1] - 2559:1
service [2] - 2557:15, 2617:5
services [1] - 2556:20
SESSION [1] - 2652:1
session [1] - 2554:5
set [5] - 2562:14, 2633:21, 2633:25,
2715:20, 2716:7
settings [1] - 2702:13
Seven [2] - 2652:13, 2656:13
seven [5] - 2566:23, 2572:9, 2653:16,
2653:17, 2653:19
several [4] - 2560:17, 2573:14, 2577:1,
2598:18
shape [2] - 2584:9, 2686:9
share [2] - 2614:16, 2666:4
shareholders [2] - 2628:25, 2736:15
sheet [3] - 2670:5, 2696:5, 2696:18
shifted [3] - 2597:13, 2597:14,
2597:15
short [10] - 2585:20, 2619:21, 2623:8,
2625:15, 2625:17, 2626:6, 2647:9,
2662:19, 2677:24, 2691:7
short-cut [1] - 2647:9
shots [1] - 2690:19
show [3] - 2652:8, 2734:1, 2734:2
showing [1] - 2727:9
shown [3] - 2633:3, 2633:10, 2633:12
shows [1] - 2712:4
shut [3] - 2623:12, 2624:9, 2624:19 24
shutdown [1] - 2581:19
sic] [1] - 2698:10
side [2] - 2578:19, 2627:14
sidebar [4] - 2633:15, 2637:11,
2663:16, 2663:21
Sidebar [2] - 2635:2, 2636:19
Sidley [2] - 2698:10, 2698:11
Siembida [1] - 2654:15
sign [1] - 2589:6
signed [2] - 2664:24, 2690:24
significant [5] - 2576:4, 2594:11,
2621:20, 2732:3, 2739:8
signing [1] - 2629:10
silence [1] - 2706:9
similar [1] - 2727:11
similarly [2] - 2590:6, 2604:22
simple [5] - 2588:22, 2617:17,
2631:14, 2711:18, 2721:2
simplify [1] - 2596:25
simply [10] - 2586:6, 2610:7, 2627:6,
2627:14, 2646:25, 2704:6, 2704:13,
2715:11, 2726:10, 2727:9
simultaneously [1] - 2623:2
SINCLAIR [1] - 2552:16
Sinclair [1] - 2554:14
single [3] - 2588:3, 2621:1, 2621:4
sit [2] - 2573:25, 2620:11
site [1] - 2588:21
sitting [4] - 2565:21, 2566:6, 2571:10,
2650:21
situation [3] - 2654:16, 2675:1,
2684:10
six [8] - 2566:24, 2582:22, 2653:15,
2653:21, 2653:23, 2664:18, 2681:6
size [1] - 2669:11
slightly [1] - 2641:11
slip [2] - 2590:5, 2650:19
small [1] - 2574:15
so-called [5] - 2565:23, 2617:22,
2641:6, 2642:20, 2698:18
sold [3] - 2562:14, 2626:21, 2626:23
Solkema [1] - 2602:10
someone [3] - 2607:12, 2646:16,
2687:16
sometime [1] - 2738:13
sometimes [3] - 2665:21, 2702:12,
2723:6
somewhat [2] - 2567:23, 2723:12
sophisticated [6] - 2588:17, 2692:6,
2692:8, 2692:13, 2694:25, 2695:8
sophistication [5] - 2604:23, 2605:16,
2605:18, 2692:10, 2705:21
sorry [10] - 2570:8, 2577:17, 2607:2,
2640:21, 2642:24, 2662:19, 2662:22,
2690:23, 2703:4, 2722:2
sort [12] - 2572:20, 2575:2, 2581:2,
2602:25, 2614:10, 2661:7, 2685:10,
2697:25, 2701:20, 2704:5, 2714:25
sorts [1] - 2689:9
sound [3] - 2667:15, 2671:25, 2740:6
sounds [8] - 2572:19, 2573:4, 2667:9,
2678:8, 2717:23, 2723:20, 2740:11,
2740:24
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, FCRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
source [3] - 2613:3, 2614:23, 2705:18
Southern [1] - 2654:15
speaking [5] - 2612:13, 2706:21,
2706:23, 2718:18, 2728:18
speaks [2] - 2644:10, 2670:1
Special [1] - 2554:15
specific [19] - 2561:18, 2561:19,
2562:21, 2562:23, 2563:8, 2579:21,
2591:1, 2610:11, 2612:5, 2624:12,
2631:2, 2641:24, 2641:25, 2677:9,
2678:9, 2693:14, 2730:25, 2732:18,
2732:21
specifically [10] - 2593:19, 2693:1,
2694:16, 2698:14, 2706:11, 2708:10,
2710:1, 2714:23, 2718:1, 2722:11
specified [1] - 2715:19
speculate [3] - 2607:9, 2627:18,
2632:4
speculating [2] - 2573:16, 2606:9
speech [1] - 2600:21
speeches [1] - 2600:14
spell [1] - 2555:25
spelled [1] - 2628:19
spend [3] - 2574:12, 2675:25, 2731:13
spending [1] - 2559:12
spent [4] - 2568:23, 2569:2, 2569:4,
2574:6
spite [1] - 2688:20
spoken [5] - 2589:22, 2638:1, 2673:6,
2676:22, 2709:1
spreads [3] - 2584:19, 2622:1,
2632:11
Spring [1] - 2629:21
spring [17] - 2582:20, 2583:11, 2590:2,
2590:18, 2600:9, 2600:16, 2600:17,
2600:22, 2608:23, 2609:9, 2610:5,
2610:17, 2610:22, 2616:11, 2618:8,
2621:17, 2630:21
square [1] - 2692:21
squared [1] - 2659:22
stability [1] - 2576:1
stable [1] - 2567:13
staccato [1] - 2637:3
staff [1] - 2569:8
stage [1] - 2735:8
stamped [1] - 2633:14
Stamps [3] - 2678:4, 2681:2, 2681:9
stand [5] - 2555:20, 2591:25, 2620:6,
2620:8, 2680:13
standalone [1] - 2642:22
standard [15] - 2591:23, 2642:6,
2677:3, 2678:23, 2692:14, 2694:9,
2697:19, 2704:6, 2704:17, 2704:19,
2708:18, 2714:25, 2716:17, 2716:18,
2734:14
standards [2] - 2605:17, 2605:25
standing [1] - 2655:20
stands [2] - 2655:13, 2680:12
start [5] - 2668:1, 2670:15, 2672:7,
2728:6, 2738:15
started [1] - 2627:20
starters [1] - 2718:10
starting [2] - 2671:4, 2728:22
starts [1] - 2728:20
state [16] - 2555:25, 2608:22, 2608:24,
2609:8, 2640:23, 2641:13, 2641:15,
2642:2, 2643:5, 2643:7, 2646:14,
2679:19, 2702:24, 2734:11, 2734:19,
2735:10
statement [19] - 2567:2, 2567:4,
2578:3, 2582:23, 2582:24, 2593:18,
2688:15, 2691:3, 2704:21, 2716:3,
2729:2, 2729:17, 2729:18, 2729:19,
2730:14, 2730:22, 2732:7, 2737:19,
2741:12
statements [16] - 2676:16, 2716:14,
2717:8, 2717:14, 2718:15, 2729:3,
2730:9, 2731:16, 2731:20, 2732:1,
2732:4, 2732:6, 2732:15, 2737:20
states [1] - 2727:8
statistical [1] - 2624:16
statistics [1] - 2576:2
statute [14] - 2677:3, 2677:6, 2677:10,
2679:11, 2679:17, 2683:10, 2688:17,
2688:20, 2713:25, 2714:3, 2714:4,
2714:7, 2720:14, 2738:8
statutes [1] - 2690:5
statutory [1] - 2713:18
stay [5] - 2585:11, 2601:9, 2608:17,
2676:16, 2733:8
Stearns [15] - 2645:1, 2646:22,
2646:23, 2647:1, 2647:4, 2652:24,
2653:9, 2664:8, 2664:11, 2664:14,
2664:17, 2664:21
Stearns's [1] - 2664:20
stenography [1] - 2553:14
step [2] - 2634:6, 2649:4
steps [1] - 2587:12
Sterns [1] - 2587:19
stick [2] - 2591:9, 2659:15
still [6] - 2558:8, 2558:9, 2676:11,
2680:8, 2721:21, 2739:15
stints [1] - 2557:15
stipulate [3] - 2652:11, 2652:24,
2657:12
stipulated [3] - 2639:13, 2644:24,
2664:7
stipulation [12] - 2657:14, 2657:15,
2659:20, 2659:23, 2660:4, 2662:15,
2663:13, 2663:14, 2663:23, 2663:25,
2665:5, 2725:16
stop [3] - 2587:9, 2692:2, 2694:24
stopping [1] - 2692:2
Stores [1] - 2681:10
story [1] - 2622:7
strategies [8] - 2561:24, 2579:24,
2580:1, 2604:7, 2604:8, 2606:7,
2606:10, 2609:5
strategy [29] - 2562:5, 2565:2, 2565:3,
2565:10, 2565:14, 2566:6, 2566:21,
2580:9, 2584:16, 2585:2, 2586:23,
2590:14, 2603:13, 2604:17, 2604:18,
2611:2, 2612:6, 2612:7, 2613:11,
2613:14, 2613:22, 2614:2, 2614:3,
2614:12, 2615:18, 2618:8, 2626:8
streamline [1] - 2636:14
Street [7] - 2552:20, 2553:4, 2595:2,
2595:3, 2595:8, 2595:16, 2738:11
stress [6] - 2562:19, 2622:21, 2622:23,
2623:1, 2623:6, 2623:9
stressful [1] - 2589:16
stricken [1] - 2591:8
25
strictures [1] - 2684:13
strike [1] - 2627:17
striking [1] - 2740:13
stronger [1] - 2583:3
structure [4] - 2559:21, 2631:24,
2668:11, 2677:1
structured [4] - 2562:25, 2563:12,
2564:25, 2565:15
student [1] - 2567:20
students [1] - 2589:6
study [3] - 2559:9, 2559:13, 2559:16
stuff [4] - 2617:20, 2689:7, 2714:24,
2714:25
subject [5] - 2568:21, 2576:16,
2615:21, 2711:16, 2711:17
subjects [3] - 2556:17, 2556:18,
2559:16
submit [6] - 2657:9, 2693:16, 2693:17,
2694:5, 2708:22, 2735:14
subparts [1] - 2723:21
subscriptions [1] - 2685:1
subsection [1] - 2716:5
Subsection [2] - 2716:5, 2716:9
subsequent [2] - 2657:5, 2700:3
subsequently [1] - 2625:1
subset [3] - 2559:15, 2724:10,
2724:24
subsidiary [1] - 2564:8
substantive [2] - 2698:25, 2699:3
substantively [2] - 2670:13, 2701:12
subsumes [2] - 2680:3, 2691:4
success [1] - 2733:20
successful [2] - 2733:18, 2734:16
suffering [1] - 2707:18
suffice [1] - 2681:8
sufficient [9] - 2568:2, 2568:6, 2622:3,
2622:8, 2652:19, 2652:23, 2684:11,
2688:17, 2696:3
sufficiently [1] - 2711:5
suggest [1] - 2581:25
suggested [1] - 2623:11
suggestion [2] - 2711:7, 2712:12
sum [1] - 2648:18
summa [1] - 2557:2
summary [1] - 2691:2
summation [12] - 2648:20, 2649:6,
2666:20, 2667:5, 2667:8, 2667:9,
2667:12, 2667:15, 2667:21, 2740:12,
2740:15, 2741:8
summations [18] - 2636:7, 2648:14,
2648:23, 2649:16, 2649:19, 2665:21,
2666:22, 2667:3, 2667:11, 2668:1,
2671:19, 2671:22, 2709:2, 2735:22,
2738:15, 2740:2, 2740:16, 2741:2
summer [2] - 2736:24, 2737:4
SUNG [1] - 2553:6
superior [2] - 2614:3, 2628:18
supplied [2] - 2573:5, 2608:1
support [5] - 2673:19, 2682:23,
2696:4, 2699:17, 2719:12
supposed [1] - 2561:16
Supreme [4] - 2678:4, 2681:3,
2681:16, 2697:22
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, FCRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
survived [1] - 2582:20
SUSAN [1] - 2553:5
susan [1] - 2554:20
susceptibility [1] - 2703:21
suspect [3] - 2667:20, 2668:3,
2693:18
suspend [3] - 2594:1, 2594:13,
2595:19
suspended [1] - 2629:24
suspenders [1] - 2701:21
suspending [2] - 2595:6, 2595:20
suspension [16] - 2593:7, 2593:9,
2593:12, 2593:16, 2593:18, 2593:22,
2594:6, 2594:9, 2594:14, 2594:16,
2594:18, 2594:20, 2594:21, 2595:3,
2596:5
sustained [3] - 2590:25, 2618:15,
2633:17
suture [1] - 2599:8
swaps [2] - 2587:22, 2588:2
Switzerland [2] - 2652:16, 2656:22
sworn [1] - 2555:23
symptom [1] - 2596:11
system [3] - 2559:8, 2575:20, 2664:15
T
table [2] - 2554:15, 2567:16
tables [1] - 2573:12
tale [2] - 2667:16, 2732:13
talks [7] - 2646:10, 2693:9, 2702:8,
2704:7, 2704:13, 2718:5, 2733:16
tandem [2] - 2718:14, 2730:2
tannin [3] - 2579:17, 2595:10, 2598:10
Tannin [25] - 2553:3, 2554:9, 2554:20,
2554:24, 2630:20, 2646:7, 2646:8,
2658:14, 2661:8, 2662:20, 2662:21,
2664:22, 2665:12, 2668:8, 2673:24,
2675:15, 2699:13, 2699:14, 2701:9,
2701:12, 2710:3, 2725:9, 2728:1,
2729:4, 2737:12
TANNIN [1] - 2552:8
target [1] - 2623:7
taught [2] - 2557:9, 2559:17
tax [7] - 2556:23, 2557:16, 2558:1,
2559:12, 2560:20, 2575:14, 2575:16
taxes [1] - 2617:19
teach [3] - 2556:17, 2556:18, 2589:5
teaching [3] - 2556:19, 2557:8,
2557:13
team [2] - 2679:1, 2686:17
team's [1] - 2681:1
technical [1] - 2712:3
telephone [2] - 2725:3, 2736:4
Telephone [1] - 2553:12
ten [5] - 2572:7, 2572:11, 2572:17,
2588:11, 2731:7
tendency [1] - 2670:11
tender [1] - 2560:25
tense [1] - 2637:16
term [5] - 2556:19, 2556:20, 2556:22,
2589:7, 2606:5
terms [17] - 2560:14, 2561:22,
2567:25, 2635:20, 2666:13, 2669:4,
2671:13, 2672:10, 2682:21, 2691:5,
2691:9, 2696:3, 2698:17, 2699:9,
2700:11, 2709:18, 2735:20
terribly [1] - 2606:22
terrorism [1] - 2576:7
terrorist [2] - 2558:1, 2576:12
test [4] - 2605:9, 2623:1, 2623:9
testified [13] - 2555:24, 2560:21,
2572:13, 2601:25, 2620:19, 2624:7,
2625:3, 2629:19, 2646:24, 2647:4,
2693:6, 2698:10, 2703:9
testify [9] - 2641:14, 2642:3, 2646:25,
2653:9, 2656:1, 2664:9, 2664:10,
2664:13
testifying [1] - 2641:3
testimony [25] - 2574:1, 2574:25,
2591:3, 2602:16, 2602:20, 2602:21,
2602:22, 2618:17, 2619:1, 2619:2,
2619:7, 2619:10, 2629:22, 2637:23,
2656:6, 2656:17, 2656:20, 2657:8,
2657:12, 2665:19, 2670:19, 2670:21,
2695:9, 2715:4, 2721:23
tests [7] - 2562:19, 2605:9, 2622:4,
2622:22, 2622:23, 2623:6, 2623:7
text [1] - 2628:20
textbook [2] - 2560:17, 2560:18
themselves [3] - 2559:20, 2612:25,
2614:6
theoretically [1] - 2725:20
theory [5] - 2699:1, 2700:17, 2700:19,
2711:12, 2731:2
therefore [3] - 2681:14, 2688:22,
2711:21
thesis [4] - 2589:25, 2600:9, 2600:11,
2600:14
thinking [5] - 2630:20, 2649:13,
2719:9, 2720:5, 2721:22
thinks [1] - 2586:20
third [4] - 2596:11, 2599:24, 2646:20,
2659:5
third-parties [1] - 2659:5
third-party [1] - 2646:20
thoughts [5] - 2646:12, 2672:5,
2675:7, 2690:2, 2698:6
three [17] - 2557:21, 2565:1, 2570:18,
2577:22, 2578:6, 2638:13, 2649:9,
2649:10, 2653:9, 2667:22, 2669:6,
2690:12, 2695:17, 2695:21, 2696:6,
2696:21, 2711:4
throughout [4] - 2580:25, 2621:12,
2696:25, 2697:10
throws [1] - 2564:2
thrust [1] - 2689:7
Thursday [12] - 2636:12, 2648:15,
2649:16, 2666:15, 2668:1, 2672:13,
2738:16, 2739:11, 2739:25, 2740:8,
2741:6
timed [1] - 2649:8
timeframe [1] - 2627:8
timing [2] - 2665:25, 2738:4
titled [1] - 2714:21
toast [1] - 2579:18
today [10] - 2555:17, 2574:11,
2592:14, 2600:10, 2648:8, 2678:5,
2727:23, 2731:10, 2731:11, 2735:15
together [7] - 2570:19, 2582:17,
2628:22, 2641:12, 2650:8, 2700:17,
2727:10
26
tolerance [3] - 2596:18, 2607:8,
2607:15
tolerate [1] - 2606:15
tomorrow [14] - 2636:7, 2648:14,
2666:2, 2666:11, 2671:24, 2672:13,
2731:6, 2738:13, 2738:17, 2738:20,
2738:22, 2739:5, 2739:10, 2739:25
tonight [5] - 2690:24, 2696:17,
2734:10, 2738:10, 2739:13
took [6] - 2582:22, 2598:2, 2598:18,
2598:20, 2598:24, 2688:19
top [4] - 2573:12, 2573:13, 2597:13,
2721:11
topic [1] - 2557:25
topics [7] - 2557:23, 2559:20, 2575:6,
2576:23, 2577:1, 2578:5, 2734:24
tops [1] - 2667:20
toss [1] - 2656:5
touch [3] - 2591:11, 2678:25, 2734:13
touched [1] - 2609:14
touches [1] - 2660:21
touching [1] - 2678:21
toward [1] - 2621:16
toxic [1] - 2599:6
Trade [1] - 2559:1
trade [4] - 2626:5, 2707:24, 2708:1
traded [2] - 2703:3, 2703:8
trades [5] - 2595:13, 2626:10,
2626:13, 2626:17, 2631:24
trading [12] - 2614:2, 2669:19,
2698:17, 2703:12, 2707:12, 2707:14,
2707:15, 2707:16, 2707:25, 2708:9,
2727:23, 2736:12
Trading [3] - 2626:2, 2626:3, 2626:7
traditional [1] - 2624:15
traditionally [2] - 2588:7, 2631:22
tranche [2] - 2614:15, 2625:18
tranches [3] - 2585:12, 2587:16,
2612:19
transaction [4] - 2588:11, 2598:13,
2609:23, 2717:7
transactions [4] - 2562:13, 2617:22,
2623:15, 2624:4
transacts [1] - 2702:16
TRANSCRIPT [1] - 2552:10
Transcript [1] - 2553:14
Transcription [1] - 2553:14
transcripts [3] - 2601:25, 2602:3,
2602:7
transfer [1] - 2712:16
travel [1] - 2574:17
Treasuries [1] - 2575:17
Treasury [1] - 2557:17
treasury [2] - 2575:16, 2575:18
treated [1] - 2714:10
treatment [1] - 2575:14
Tremont [1] - 2608:4
trend [1] - 2625:2
trial [16] - 2554:8, 2554:23, 2561:7,
2567:10, 2574:22, 2574:25, 2590:14,
2590:21, 2602:1, 2646:18, 2666:7,
2671:23, 2696:25, 2714:17, 2714:22
TRIAL [1] - 2552:10
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, FCRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
trials [1] - 2574:21
tricky [1] - 2697:7
tried [1] - 2589:22
triggered [1] - 2718:16
triple [3] - 2620:25, 2621:3, 2625:18
trouble [1] - 2595:20
troubled [1] - 2654:8
true [12] - 2604:1, 2611:12, 2611:13,
2615:3, 2631:9, 2646:19, 2655:5,
2677:22, 2731:23, 2733:21, 2734:18,
2737:9
truism [1] - 2702:13
trust [2] - 2702:11, 2704:16
trusted [1] - 2638:10
truth [2] - 2706:18, 2730:7
try [14] - 2595:21, 2602:4, 2617:16,
2627:25, 2644:2, 2666:23, 2671:8,
2690:14, 2690:20, 2700:25, 2717:22,
2725:5, 2727:15, 2738:12
trying [21] - 2567:22, 2571:12, 2586:2,
2589:9, 2594:19, 2596:20, 2596:25,
2645:4, 2645:20, 2646:25, 2647:6,
2647:8, 2655:11, 2656:24, 2678:4,
2686:6, 2687:21, 2690:10, 2690:11,
2691:5, 2712:3
Tuesday [1] - 2552:7
tune [2] - 2636:9, 2648:10
turmoil [1] - 2576:5
turn [5] - 2666:8, 2670:16, 2679:1,
2681:16, 2701:24
turns [1] - 2666:1
Twelfth [1] - 2552:20
twenty [1] - 2599:1
twice [1] - 2575:8
two [53] - 2557:15, 2562:3, 2566:16,
2567:12, 2568:10, 2575:14, 2584:13,
2584:15, 2587:19, 2592:4, 2592:6,
2592:7, 2592:8, 2599:11, 2608:10,
2620:24, 2621:24, 2625:11, 2628:21,
2639:9, 2642:8, 2644:16, 2646:11,
2653:9, 2662:4, 2662:17, 2667:3,
2673:10, 2678:7, 2684:2, 2690:12,
2693:15, 2704:3, 2706:5, 2710:1,
2710:3, 2710:10, 2710:12, 2710:16,
2710:24, 2711:4, 2711:19, 2712:5,
2712:9, 2715:3, 2731:14, 2733:3,
2733:4, 2734:3, 2735:24, 2736:6
two-fold [1] - 2678:7
type [8] - 2562:13, 2608:9, 2642:13,
2650:18, 2654:15, 2712:12, 2712:22,
2725:4
types [5] - 2562:11, 2609:18, 2615:17,
2646:14, 2678:23
typical [1] - 2613:14
typically [4] - 2613:12, 2615:21,
2621:14, 2623:24
U
U.S [6] - 2558:3, 2558:18, 2558:21,
2681:5, 2681:18
UC [1] - 2675:1
ultimate [1] - 2592:6
ultimately [5] - 2583:14, 2596:7,
2600:19, 2601:16, 2656:19
unanimity [1] - 2726:6
unanimous [3] - 2670:3, 2695:20,
2726:2
unanimously [1] - 2710:18
unaware [1] - 2640:12
under [26] - 2569:9, 2575:25, 2598:15,
2639:23, 2641:4, 2641:5, 2642:18,
2642:20, 2643:10, 2645:12, 2652:19,
2666:20, 2666:25, 2677:3, 2677:14,
2681:13, 2684:13, 2688:17, 2688:18,
2688:19, 2688:23, 2689:14, 2693:13,
2707:14, 2711:11, 2714:10
Under [1] - 2697:11
undercuts [2] - 2733:22, 2733:24
undergone [1] - 2622:23
underlie [1] - 2568:15
underlying [4] - 2562:15, 2596:24,
2597:11, 2610:25
understood [3] - 2606:7, 2614:7,
2674:2
undoubtedly [1] - 2668:7
undue [1] - 2724:11
unfinished [1] - 2644:15
unfold [2] - 2668:9, 2671:18
unfortunately [3] - 2595:16, 2646:4,
2729:13
unique [3] - 2567:23, 2602:25,
2612:10
United States [14] - 2552:1, 2552:3,
2552:5, 2552:11, 2552:14, 2552:18,
2554:3, 2554:8, 2554:12, 2554:13,
2554:23, 2569:19, 2654:23, 2681:4
University [7] - 2556:10, 2557:2,
2557:5, 2557:7, 2557:8, 2557:11,
2600:21
university [1] - 2556:16
unlawful [1] - 2733:18
unless [3] - 2568:9, 2638:5, 2727:24
unnecessary [1] - 2648:12
unpack [3] - 2595:23, 2595:24,
2596:19
unreasonable [1] - 2603:6
unsuccessful [1] - 2734:17
untrue [5] - 2717:8, 2717:13, 2729:19,
2730:14, 2730:22
up [50] - 2555:3, 2573:2, 2584:13,
2584:20, 2586:18, 2588:16, 2589:6,
2598:14, 2599:6, 2600:2, 2602:22,
2604:4, 2604:5, 2605:13, 2608:4,
2614:4, 2614:23, 2615:1, 2615:10,
2619:8, 2624:13, 2626:14, 2626:17,
2631:15, 2632:12, 2633:5, 2639:2,
2640:24, 2644:19, 2645:11, 2645:14,
2645:18, 2646:4, 2647:23, 2648:18,
2650:19, 2656:18, 2661:14, 2666:23,
2669:11, 2670:4, 2674:9, 2690:24,
2700:4, 2708:2, 2726:11, 2729:6,
2733:8, 2739:9
upside [1] - 2586:5
useful [1] - 2566:8
uses [2] - 2565:5, 2741:5
V
valid [1] - 2711:7
Value [3] - 2626:1, 2626:3, 2626:7
value [11] - 2562:17, 2581:18, 2614:2,27
2626:5, 2626:10, 2626:13, 2626:15,
2631:23, 2632:10, 2632:15, 2696:20
Van [1] - 2602:10
variables [1] - 2558:15
varied [1] - 2604:22
variety [3] - 2556:18, 2583:17, 2702:13
various [5] - 2660:23, 2669:22,
2673:3, 2678:16, 2684:3
vary [1] - 2670:13
vast [2] - 2576:22, 2616:4
vehicle [5] - 2621:13, 2621:14,
2621:16, 2621:17, 2621:18
vehicles [5] - 2560:5, 2577:11,
2587:20, 2612:13
venue [6] - 2696:24, 2697:1, 2697:7,
2697:11, 2697:18
verdict [7] - 2670:3, 2670:5, 2696:5,
2696:17, 2719:12, 2719:19, 2719:23
versus [5] - 2554:24, 2654:23, 2681:4,
2681:9, 2681:16
viability [1] - 2616:12
viable [2] - 2617:8, 2618:8
vial [1] - 2712:5
Vice [1] - 2664:10
victim [1] - 2675:16
victims [1] - 2692:13
view [19] - 2567:14, 2581:9, 2581:19,
2582:17, 2595:3, 2614:15, 2614:16,
2614:17, 2621:19, 2632:5, 2633:3,
2665:25, 2697:10, 2699:8, 2699:17,
2702:25, 2704:25, 2724:20, 2733:22
viewed [1] - 2609:8
views [2] - 2581:2, 2597:11
vintage [2] - 2587:25, 2614:15
vintages [2] - 2625:18, 2625:19
violation [1] - 2679:6
virtue [1] - 2652:18
voice [1] - 2602:5
volatility [1] - 2626:19
vote [1] - 2666:1
vulnerability [1] - 2703:22
W
wait [4] - 2643:24, 2647:22, 2683:22,
2715:21
Wall [5] - 2595:2, 2595:3, 2595:8,
2595:16, 2738:11
wants [7] - 2557:24, 2627:14, 2674:25,
2698:2, 2698:21, 2702:10, 2718:9
warrant [2] - 2670:17, 2728:9
wash [1] - 2724:21
Washington [1] - 2552:21
waste [1] - 2555:14
watch [1] - 2620:1
waterfront [1] - 2644:11
ways [4] - 2565:24, 2625:11, 2625:12,
2631:25
wealth [4] - 2692:20, 2692:21,
2694:15, 2695:2
wealthier [1] - 2606:21
wearing [1] - 2701:20
web [1] - 2588:20
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, FCRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
Wednesday [1] - 2650:22
week [3] - 2649:14, 2667:25, 2671:11
weekend [2] - 2668:18, 2671:20
weekly [1] - 2622:21
Western [1] - 2557:8
WHEREUPON [1] - 2741:14
Whippany [4] - 2652:22, 2664:15,
2664:19, 2664:23
WHIPPANY [1] - 2664:16
White [1] - 2557:18
white [2] - 2575:19, 2606:3
whole [5] - 2590:17, 2618:6, 2633:21,
2649:13, 2697:23
wide [1] - 2576:22
widely [1] - 2614:6
widen [1] - 2632:11
widened [1] - 2622:1
WIEGMANN [35] - 2552:22, 2676:12,
2679:7, 2679:13, 2679:15, 2680:7,
2680:14, 2680:22, 2686:16, 2686:19,
2686:23, 2687:3, 2687:7, 2687:10,
2687:14, 2688:2, 2688:8, 2688:13,
2690:4, 2690:8, 2702:22, 2703:6,
2704:25, 2705:2, 2705:4, 2705:6,
2705:17, 2706:7, 2708:4, 2718:21,
2718:24, 2719:8, 2720:3, 2721:5,
2721:10
Wiegmann [1] - 2679:15
willful [1] - 2732:18
willfully [1] - 2717:2
WILLIAMS [1] - 2552:19
willing [5] - 2598:25, 2649:2, 2652:11,
2652:23, 2711:13
win [2] - 2605:10, 2659:17
wire [19] - 2652:8, 2657:6, 2669:20,
2698:21, 2699:7, 2699:9, 2723:6,
2723:17, 2723:21, 2723:24, 2724:6,
2724:7, 2724:10, 2724:24, 2725:2,
2725:15, 2725:19, 2725:25
wires [1] - 2725:8
wise [1] - 2626:16
wish [8] - 2561:2, 2564:6, 2569:11,
2632:3, 2638:24, 2648:21, 2652:7,
2662:10
wished [1] - 2603:11
wishes [1] - 2637:21
withdraw [1] - 2599:3
withdrawn [2] - 2579:13, 2677:21
Witness [2] - 2620:6, 2620:8
witness [12] - 2555:7, 2555:13,
2555:18, 2556:4, 2564:7, 2619:5,
2620:6, 2620:8, 2634:11, 2653:8,
2656:21, 2695:10
WITNESS [47] - 2556:2, 2561:14,
2561:17, 2561:21, 2561:24, 2562:3,
2562:6, 2562:9, 2562:11, 2562:23,
2563:5, 2563:7, 2563:11, 2563:18,
2563:23, 2564:2, 2564:21, 2577:19,
2584:4, 2584:13, 2585:8, 2586:20,
2587:12, 2588:18, 2589:7, 2593:25,
2596:11, 2596:23, 2597:7, 2597:10,
2611:17, 2612:4, 2612:8, 2612:12,
2612:18, 2612:24, 2613:7, 2613:10,
2614:14, 2615:15, 2616:18, 2616:21,
2616:25, 2617:17, 2619:10, 2634:8,
2742:3
witnesses [5] - 2635:15, 2637:20,
2641:22, 2659:8, 2669:12
won [2] - 2605:11, 2695:12
wonderful [1] - 2683:5
Wonderful [1] - 2587:12
word [5] - 2624:15, 2667:9, 2719:19,
2739:10, 2740:21
words [4] - 2583:25, 2613:4, 2691:14,
2722:21
works [3] - 2558:14, 2666:13, 2671:19
world [5] - 2567:23, 2579:3, 2589:10,
2600:8, 2694:1
worried [4] - 2697:13, 2720:10,
2720:11, 2720:12
worries [1] - 2720:9
worry [3] - 2706:1, 2727:3, 2727:21
worst [2] - 2622:25, 2623:2
worth [7] - 2593:16, 2605:1, 2605:9,
2607:10, 2693:21, 2725:11, 2725:17
wrap [1] - 2666:23
write [4] - 2571:18, 2689:25, 2735:12,
2739:24
writing [2] - 2571:10, 2735:16
writings [2] - 2581:1, 2735:11
written [13] - 2559:16, 2559:24,
2560:4, 2560:16, 2560:19, 2576:6,
2605:9, 2670:7, 2670:9, 2670:10,
2670:14, 2735:7
wrongfully [2] - 2687:16, 2687:17
wrote [4] - 2571:2, 2571:8, 2592:13,
2725:9
Y
year [1] - 2664:18
years [8] - 2557:14, 2558:25, 2560:7,
2560:13, 2630:5, 2630:8, 2683:6,
2697:10
yellow [4] - 2622:11, 2623:14,
2623:20, 2629:20
yesterday [3] - 2706:4, 2723:10,
2738:8
YORK [1] - 2552:1
York [8] - 2552:5, 2552:14, 2552:15,
2553:4, 2554:4, 2569:20, 2664:17
York-based [1] - 2664:17
yourself [2] - 2672:6, 2727:25
Z
zero [2] - 2632:13, 2632:15
Anthony D. Frisolone, CSR, RDR, FCRR, CRI
Official Court Reporter
28