Meeting transcript 18.11.2005. modeling project. [178.5 KiB]

Meeting transcript 18.11.2005. modeling project. [178.5 KiB]
[12:53:58] * Miroslav Lakotic added Mladen Čikara to this chat
[12:55:20] * Miroslav Lakotic added Marko Pecic to this chat
[12:55:37] Miroslav Lakotic says: Hello!!!
[12:55:56] Marko Pecic says: hy!
[12:55:57] Miroslav Lakotic says: so..
[12:56:06] Marko Burazin says: hello people
[12:56:21] Miroslav Lakotic says: Mladene!!!!!
[12:56:29] Mladen Čikara says: Here I am
[12:56:55] Miroslav Lakotic says: Ok, from this side we’r all here… I talked to Mathias
and scheduled a meeting on mondey 12:00
[12:57:06] Miroslav Lakotic says: who has mic?
[12:57:12] Mladen Čikara says: I do
[12:57:14] Marko Pecic says: I do :)
[12:58:22] Miroslav Lakotic says: Marko... answer ... so u can at least hear us... this char
window stays
[12:58:32] Marko Burazin says: ok
[12:58:59] Mladen Čikara says: Marko just answer u don’t need to talk 
[13:00:03] Marko Burazin says: Make the conference call again
[13:00:29] Marko Burazin says: ok, i can hear u
[13:01:10] Marko Burazin says: i can’t talk...
[13:01:22] Marko Burazin says: but i can hear
[13:01:29] Miroslav Lakotic says: ok, great
[13:04:33] * Mladen Čikara has changed the chat topic to "Sastanao 01"
[13:04:43] * Mladen Čikara has changed the chat topic to "Sastanak 01"
[13:05:34] Marko Burazin says: hy
[13:05:44] Mladen Čikara says: hy :)
[13:05:44] Miroslav Lakotic says: marko has strong echo...
[13:05:51] Miroslav Lakotic says: probably because he has no mic
[13:06:03] Marko Burazin says: just from me?
[13:06:07] Marko Pecic says: ok, i can turn off the camera, and have only mic..
[13:06:08] Mladen Čikara says: Meybe if u should move the mica avay from the speaker?
[13:06:35] Miroslav Lakotic says: Now it’s ok, but it would be better to write the most of
it
[13:06:42] Marko Burazin says: i have the mic, but don’t know how smart is to turn it on,
considering modem link
[13:06:58] Miroslav Lakotic says: no, that’s ok, just turn it on
[13:07:22] Marko Burazin says: ok
[13:08:11] Mladen Čikara says: what’s going on???
[13:08:44] Mladen Čikara says: OK
[13:08:48] Miroslav Lakotic says: definitely
[13:08:56] Marko Burazin says: it doesn’t works
[13:09:01] Marko Burazin says: lets just stay on chat
[13:09:06] Marko Pecic says: ok, chat is ok
[13:09:12] Mladen Čikara says: I’m for
[13:09:16] Miroslav Lakotic says: Ok, chat it is, the conference way is imposible.
[13:10:20] Miroslav Lakotic says: ok, we should make the model of the application till
Tuesday...
[13:10:32] Miroslav Lakotic says: from Tuesday i’m doing presentation and we discus
how we present it ...
[13:10:35] Marko Pecic says: model – of the application?
[13:10:43] Miroslav Lakotic says: it would be ok to be one step ahead of the timeline
[13:10:46] Miroslav Lakotic says: jes, model of the application
[13:10:47] Marko Pecic says: or input (what i do?)
[13:11:14] Miroslav Lakotic says: for new we have general model, but we should do the
structure in UML, it would spear us much time later in implementation
[13:11:25] Miroslav Lakotic says: Marko works on the input model...
[13:11:26] Miroslav Lakotic says: :)
[13:11:48] Mladen Čikara says: Ok, but the problem is that we don’t know UML :)
[13:12:09] Miroslav Lakotic says: just install MS Visio and everything will be quite
clear, if u have it...
[13:12:15] Marko Burazin says: we know just basics...
[13:12:20] Miroslav Lakotic says: if u don’t have it, i’l give it to you on Monday
[13:12:28] Mladen Čikara says: what is Microsoft visio?
[13:12:31] Marko Burazin says: how deep are we gona go with this UML
[13:12:35] Marko Burazin says: UML
[13:12:44] Miroslav Lakotic says: not deep, just to model the structure.
[13:12:51] Miroslav Lakotic says: u don’t have to write UML code or something
[13:12:55] Miroslav Lakotic says: u just draw
[13:12:59] Marko Burazin says: Well that’s not som problem as it seems
[13:13:15] Marko Pecic says: so let everyone makes one part of that model and we put it
together then…
[13:13:25] Miroslav Lakotic says: it would be good to know how we are going to divide
the project, so we ken make precise tasks...
[13:13:27] Marko Burazin says: sounds ok...
[13:13:28] Miroslav Lakotic says: wait a bit
[13:13:41] Marko Pecic says: do you think that picture from the web?
[13:14:01] Mladen Čikara says: i suggest that we make the example the Swedish gave us
we make in UML-u
To define the functionality they gave us
[13:14:12] Marko Pecic says: that swf u think?
[13:14:16] Mladen Čikara says: yes
[13:14:30] Miroslav Lakotic says: no...
[13:14:36] Marko Pecic says: yes or no? :)
[13:14:41] Miroslav Lakotic says: model… u have it on the CVS as model…
[13:14:48] Miroslav Lakotic says: not flash
[13:14:54] Miroslav Lakotic says: it’s behavioral
[13:15:17] Miroslav Lakotic says: we need static class model so we can know what to do
next
[13:15:20] Miroslav Lakotic says: moment...
[13:15:44] Mladen Čikara says: So we would need two classes..
[13:15:49] * Miroslav Lakotic sent file "Initial model.jpg" to members of this chat
[13:16:03] Miroslav Lakotic says: no way...
[13:16:06] Mladen Čikara says: the first is history and the next is view
[13:16:29] Mladen Čikara says: and the model view needs to communicate with the other
views
[13:16:45] Miroslav Lakotic says: we need class for Engine, for the input and output
structures(more classes), for plugin, every view is probbabli one class, we need custom
drawn components.. and much more...
[13:17:10] Miroslav Lakotic says: o, you think for the plugin… probabli 3 or 4 main
classis + component
[13:17:39] Miroslav Lakotic says: We should figer out how to make interfaces between
views...
[13:17:50] Mladen Čikara says: That what u sent us it the model of the project from the
other group :)
[13:18:00] Marko Burazin says: yea, right
[13:18:19] Miroslav Lakotic says: for custom drawn components , it’ not bad, u can stick
Listeners to them.. u java-people know more... i just suggest...
[13:18:36] Miroslav Lakotic says: ha?
[13:18:42] Marko Pecic says: U can link listener to almost everything
[13:18:45] Miroslav Lakotic says: what other merge group.. u think our Swedish side
or…
[13:18:58] Marko Burazin says: Merge2
[13:19:06] Miroslav Lakotic says: yes Marko, but not on the classes, not som part of code
that lays around somewhere...
[13:19:09] Mladen Čikara says: no, the merge project is made by two groups, group 4 &
6(i think)
[13:19:31] Miroslav Lakotic says: that what i sent, i draw..
[13:19:41] Mladen Čikara says: this is the project of the other group("somertime")
[13:19:49] Mladen Čikara says: Aaaa
[13:19:52] Miroslav Lakotic says: I got the name wrong way then..
[13:19:59] Miroslav Lakotic says: it doesn’t matter ... wee’l rename it.. :)
[13:20:21] Mladen Čikara says: No, maybe i got it wrong :)
[13:22:17] Mladen Čikara says: Get visio on Monday. So we can work
[13:23:35] Miroslav Lakotic says: ok..
[13:24:42] Mladen Čikara says: What should be in this history view?
[13:24:52] Miroslav Lakotic says: YEEEEES!!!!!!! :D
[13:25:01] Marko Pecic says: There should be branches of the output system
[13:25:13] Miroslav Lakotic says: branches, and using that structure the tree view should
be formed.
[13:25:30] Miroslav Lakotic says: So two branches has different input system component
selection...
[13:25:35] Miroslav Lakotic says: For every step other
[13:25:46] Mladen Čikara says: When do you create a new branch and how?
[13:25:54] Miroslav Lakotic says: I think that memory requirements are not the issue
because those are small structures...
[13:26:18] Marko Pecic says: not exactly like that, i think that the branch is a sort of
snapshot of the final system
[13:26:20] Miroslav Lakotic says: when u select component for the output system, then u
can go back and select other components, that’s when u create branch ...
[13:26:44] Miroslav Lakotic says: And u need to follow the entire structure because
otherwise it won’t be easy...
[13:27:06] Marko Burazin says: Why only final system?
[13:27:11] Miroslav Lakotic says: we could make the history as a tree with selections,
and every leaf is the final structure...
[13:27:36] Mladen Čikara says: Will that structure be read from the disc or it will be
created dinamicly?
[13:27:47] Miroslav Lakotic says: it will be created dynamically..
[13:28:00] Miroslav Lakotic says: Actually Pecic just gave me the idea....
[13:28:05] Mladen Čikara says: But it has to be read from the file as well?
[13:28:06] Marko Pecic says: I save the xml structure and read it when needed
[13:28:44] Marko Pecic says: yes, but it is not important
[13:28:51] Miroslav Lakotic says: yea, we use EMF to create input and output structures,
maybe also history structure, so we can save it, and load from XML without writing line
of code.
[13:29:07] Miroslav Lakotic says: history needs to be linked with output structure...
[13:29:15] Marko Pecic says: yes, EMF has methods that do that.
[13:29:24] Miroslav Lakotic says: every component in the output structure has list of
selections, a, b or new....
[13:29:25] Marko Burazin says: yes, but how does the history changes through runtime?
It’s not the snapshot then, or it is?
[13:29:53] Marko Pecic says: No, like in CVS when u save it, it will be a new version.
[13:29:54] Miroslav Lakotic says: depending on selected (none, one or more selections)
the history branches...
[13:30:34] Miroslav Lakotic says: imagine the structure...
[13:30:50] Miroslav Lakotic says: as a tree which has one component as parent and more
as branches...
[13:31:04] Miroslav Lakotic says: the same structure has the input system, only
expended...
[13:31:13] Marko Pecic says: u don’t have to save every branch, only the ones the user
hits the Save button
[13:31:22] Miroslav Lakotic says: but there is no any components unless we select them
first...
[13:31:45] Miroslav Lakotic says: if we select component for the head, that is one branch
[13:31:53] Miroslav Lakotic says: if we select the other, it is the other branch...
[13:32:07] Miroslav Lakotic says: so we can recursively branch down...
[13:32:08] Marko Pecic says: it’s not the condition that the output systeam needs to have
the same structure as input.
[13:32:20] Miroslav Lakotic says: this would be the example...
[13:33:01] Marko Pecic says: u take two systems, A and B...
[13:33:01] Miroslav Lakotic says: don’t warry, i’ll make few diagrams...
[13:33:19] Marko Pecic says: down there where is the output system, there is nothing
[13:33:20] Miroslav Lakotic says: those componets in the module, should be connected
only with method calls...
[13:33:31] Miroslav Lakotic says: i’m going to send...
[13:33:48] Marko Pecic says: then u take component, drag them down and connect them
[13:34:02] Marko Pecic says: and u have the new structure...
[13:34:57] Miroslav Lakotic says: ok, i think Mathias will have few problems with that
idea, but it sounds ok... (His swf works a bit different)
[13:35:16] Miroslav Lakotic says: i think they presumed the same structure...
[13:35:27] Miroslav Lakotic says: drag & drop seems nice to me... :)
[13:35:31] Marko Pecic says: but the structure is not defined nowhere
[13:35:48] Marko Burazin says: if we realy have simple UML diagram, i have one
program written in Java [13:36:18] Miroslav Lakotic says: da?
[13:36:21] Miroslav Lakotic says: for?
[13:36:40] Marko Burazin says: i can send it to you so we’ll se if that’s enough
[13:37:21] * Miroslav Lakotic sent file "komponente.jpg" to members of this chat
[13:37:49] Miroslav Lakotic says: let’s work in visio, it has been proven...
[13:37:55] Marko Burazin says: ok...
[13:38:07] Miroslav Lakotic says: But i think UML diagrams are quite compatible...
[13:38:40] Marko Burazin says: they should be
[13:38:49] Mladen Čikara says: Unfortunately we don’t have visio till Monday :(
[13:38:52] Miroslav Lakotic says: u can send if u wish ...
[13:39:01] Marko Burazin says: ok, I’m sending
[13:39:33] Marko Burazin says: sorry for slow connection :)
[13:39:37] Miroslav Lakotic says: ok...
[13:40:05] Marko Burazin says: execute it with "java -jar violet-0.15.jar"
[13:40:18] Miroslav Lakotic says: maybe i make a shared drawing board till next time in
.NET, that shouldn’t be too hard...
[13:40:18] Marko Burazin says: FYI
[13:40:36] Miroslav Lakotic says: FYI?
[13:40:49] Marko Burazin says: For Your Information
[13:40:51] Mladen Čikara says: For your Information :)
[13:41:01] Miroslav Lakotic says: ok, i’m not professional chater... :(
[13:41:47] Marko Burazin says: so now u know...
[13:42:15] Miroslav Lakotic says: jea...
[13:43:39] Miroslav Lakotic says: ok, u can vork in Violet if u like, i’ll redraw it in visio
then...
[13:43:50] Marko Burazin says: ok...
[13:43:55] Miroslav Lakotic says: it’s a bit more powerfull tool...
[13:44:13] Marko Burazin says: i know this is the simplest possible, but it’s ok for start
[13:44:31] Miroslav Lakotic says: ok, try to define views for drawing components of the
input systems.
[13:44:57] Miroslav Lakotic says: try to research how to make custom drawn components
and how to connect the listeners to them...
[13:45:04] Miroslav Lakotic says: eventually drag & drop...
[13:45:15] Miroslav Lakotic says: i’ll try to learn some of that too...
[13:45:19] Marko Burazin says: how many views would there be ?
[13:45:26] Miroslav Lakotic says: i’ll try to design history...
[13:45:31] Miroslav Lakotic says: it would be ok 4
[13:45:36] Miroslav Lakotic says: one for history
[13:45:41] Miroslav Lakotic says: one for input systems
[13:45:48] Miroslav Lakotic says: one for output system
[13:46:00] Miroslav Lakotic says: and one for console for intermediate results
[13:46:08] Marko Burazin says: OK...
[13:46:09] Miroslav Lakotic says: i’ll draw...
[13:46:12] Marko Burazin says: do it
[13:48:02] Marko Burazin says: Mladen, i realy don’t know why i upload only 538 B/s ...
[13:48:17] Marko Burazin says: it should work faster
[13:48:29] Mladen Čikara says: no problem
[13:50:34] * Miroslav Lakotic sent file "plugin.jpg" to members of this chat
[13:51:43] Miroslav Lakotic says: Pecic.. sorry i don’t call u bay name... :)
[13:51:48] Marko Pecic says: yes?
[13:52:20] Marko Burazin says: is there more output systems in Output Systems View ?
[13:52:32] Miroslav Lakotic says: u know what u do... just system representation... this
will be interconnected with history...
[13:53:09] Miroslav Lakotic says:maybe it would be better to model the output structure
differently, so it contains structures for history..
[13:53:47] Miroslav Lakotic says:in output structure we just add choice lists (a,b,new)
[13:54:05] Marko Pecic says: it would be better, one model for all structures, if u need
methods for history, it can be added
[13:54:07] Miroslav Lakotic says: depending on that list the history branches on...
[13:54:25] Miroslav Lakotic says: yes, bu i think that is the simplest...
[13:54:37] Miroslav Lakotic says: actually don’t...
[13:54:48] Miroslav Lakotic says: it’ll be a new structure...
[13:54:53] Marko Pecic says: that’s not goot, emagine how much data that is, for every
branch :)
[13:54:59] Miroslav Lakotic says: so we don’t interlink too much...
[13:55:10] Marko Pecic says: it would grow exponentially
[13:55:32] Miroslav Lakotic says: if u choose one, it’s just linear structure, it’s not much,
trust me.
[13:55:41] Miroslav Lakotic says: not all the paths will be active
[13:55:49] Miroslav Lakotic says: just one the user selects...
[13:56:12] Miroslav Lakotic says: he decides if he creates branch in some moment...
[13:56:15] Marko Pecic says: and how will he set that?
[13:56:41] Miroslav Lakotic says: by going back, and then selecting the other component,
or by creating a new one...
[13:56:51] Miroslav Lakotic says: everything beneath that component is a new branch...
[13:57:07] Miroslav Lakotic says: system asks does he wants to create new branch...
[13:57:13] Marko Pecic says: components can’t be in history?
[13:57:13] Miroslav Lakotic says: and asks for version...
[13:57:31] Miroslav Lakotic says: choice is in history, not componets....
[13:57:53] Miroslav Lakotic says: don’t wary when i make the model, all will be clear ...
[13:58:14] Miroslav Lakotic says: components mey be linked only by API, we shouldn’t
mix code...
[13:58:26] Miroslav Lakotic says: so everything should be made with method calls...
[13:58:47] Marko Pecic says: give me the example, i don’t get u…
[13:58:53] Miroslav Lakotic says: for example, the choice of some component :
Engine.choice(component) or something like that
[13:59:17] Miroslav Lakotic says: but in the listener there is no logic for the job of the
Engine...
[13:59:25] Marko Pecic says: and what would happen if u call
Engine.choice(component)?
[14:03:05] Miroslav Lakotic says: meeting on Monday 12:00
[14:03:14] Miroslav Lakotic says: with the other side...
[14:03:23] Marko Pecic says: ok.
[14:03:25] Marko Burazin says: ok.
[14:03:50] Miroslav Lakotic says: geneal model, as much as u can, get to me till
wednesday... doesn’t has to have too much details...
[14:03:56] Miroslav Lakotic says: as much as u can...
[14:04:07] Marko Pecic says: so that’s it for today..?
[14:04:08] Marko Burazin says: We’ll all present the presentation ?
[14:04:20] Miroslav Lakotic says: read news and check CVS...
[14:04:28] Miroslav Lakotic says: i’m writing reports
[14:04:49] Mladen Čikara says: I think we should hold the presentation two by two, so
everyone gets his word :)
[14:05:13] Miroslav Lakotic says: definitely, that’s why we have the meeting...
[14:05:31] Miroslav Lakotic says: so that we don’t have to prove what masters of
improvisation we are (so balkan)
[14:06:02] Marko Burazin says: We live in the best part of the world :)
[14:06:11] Miroslav Lakotic says: yea... barrel of gun-powder...
[14:06:19] Marko Burazin says: it rocks
[14:06:24] Miroslav Lakotic says: totally...
[14:06:35] Miroslav Lakotic says: should we publish this meeting...local?
[14:06:36] Marko Burazin says: so, Monday at 12:00
[14:06:40] Miroslav Lakotic says: yea...
[14:06:47] Marko Burazin says: yes, publish it
[14:06:55] Miroslav Lakotic says: ok, with pictures....
[14:07:07] Miroslav Lakotic says: see you...
[14:07:09] Marko Burazin says: bye
[14:07:15] Marko Pecic says: bye!
[14:07:33] Miroslav Lakotic says: bye
[14:07:38] Miroslav Lakotic says: enjoy people...
[14:07:39] Mladen Čikara says: At 12 on net, when are we going to exchange vbisio?? Or
we work in this marko’s crap :)]:)
[14:07:53] Miroslav Lakotic says: monday 12:00
[14:07:58] Mladen Čikara says: OK
[14:08:00] Miroslav Lakotic says: the best...
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